Geocaching Australia

Following on the the "Signing the Log to log a Find" thread and the consensus in that thread being that all cachers should be signing the physical log before logging the find on geocaching.com.



Should not the same rule then apply when teams cache as a group?

How would anyone know whether all of the group of cachers were at GZ, or only the cacher that placed the sticker in the log? Being the devil's advocate, what would there be to stop a group teaming up, sharing their group sticker and then claiming finds when not all teams in the group where physically present at GZ at the same time.

Have all caching teams that have claimed records all been at GZ, or was a designated team member responsible for finding and logging the find, whilst the rest of team was preparing to get to the next cache and deciding who would find and log that find?

If the log is to be sacrosanct, each team within the group should individually place a sticker/mark in the log book to legitimate their find.

When caching as a group of teams and chasing records, where time is critical, what should the rule be to claim a find?

Should a find by a group be any different to a find by an individual?

Being an informal activity, I'm not fussed one way or the other, however how anyone wants to play is up to them.

I'm interested in what other cachers thing and open this up for debate!!

This is NOT intended to flame any caching groups - just curious what others think having regard to the initial thread of expecting individual cachers to physically sign the log to claim a find.

If you wanted to be really pedantic about it, groups hunting for caches would have to do what we (my family) do sometimes...everyone looks for the cache, but when you spot it you DONT grab it. You wander away and call "Bananaphone" to signal that you've spotted the cache. The cache is only extracted when everyone has spotted it (or the youngest gives up ).

That way everyone in the group would actually have *found* the cache...

If a group of 5 people found one of my caches I would really NOT want to get 5 identical stickers put in the book. Seems like a redundant and wasteful idea to me.

If some people want to cheat themselves and claim a find on a cache because the team sticker is in it, they could just get the finder to write their name instead.

Let's not lawyer the crap out of the game. It's meant to be fun. Some people may not want to play by the rules but the best thing to do is let them play it their way and then point at them and laugh when they boast about their "achievements".

Love the example sticker btw. Saw Big Mat post it in another thread. Great idea and really personalises what might otherwise be a boring "X was here" sticker.

Damo. wrote:Let's not lawyer the crap out of the game. It's meant to be fun. Some people may not want to play by the rules but the best thing to do is let them play it their way and then point at them and laugh when they boast about their "achievements".

If collective signing of the log by way of a group sticker is considered OK, then so ought to be an individual's choice whether they sign the log.

My concern with a group find sticker is more to do with there being no way to check that each team in the group was at GZ, (if that is the criteria for a "find") and therefore there is little difference between a group "find" where not all group members individually log their "find" and an individual who decides that they want to play it their way by not signing the log.

Bewilderbeest wrote:If you wanted to be really pedantic about it, groups hunting for caches would have to do what we (my family) do sometimes...everyone looks for the cache, but when you spot it you DONT grab it. You wander away and call "Bananaphone" to signal that you've spotted the cache. The cache is only extracted when everyone has spotted it (or the youngest gives up ).

That way everyone in the group would actually have *found* the cache...

My initial comments were not intended to be directed at family caching - my apologies if this was inferred.

If I'm out caching with someone else, then he who finds the box first gets to log first, then I make them write my name in there too

From the handwriting, there is an implication that I may not have been there are the find which would be the same as having a sticker, so I think a sticker would be fine

If the rules of Geocaching are, from http://www.geocaching.com/faq/ ,:

What are the rules in Geocaching?
1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.
2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.
3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

Then for GC.com caches is a sticker enough or do you need to write in the logbook?

Jardry wrote:If the log is to be sacrosanct, each team within the group should individually place a sticker/mark in the log book to legitimate their find.

If it is in relation to a record breaking run, I tend to lean towards each member having to log/place a sticker (as did the NZ team a few years ago), but then what's to stop one person sticking individual stickers of the other "members" in the log book - whether they are present or not?
Having said that I have written in the log book on a few occasions the other cachers names of our group when I have found a cache that was awkward to get to (and visa versa) - however we were not trying to break any records in those occasions (if that makes any difference).

I know of a team where they would go two different ways and sign the same name in the log book. Was Ok with this till there where 5 new caches and they went two different ways signing the same name in all books at the same time. Thus gave anyone else no chance at a FTF. The same cacher was knowen to have found caches in two very far apart States on the same days and dates but still log them all as the one team and no they didn't fly from one to the other.

At the same time I quite offen go out as part of a team who go on caching trips and will offen sign a log book TLC's instead of writing all three names, but we only use this when all of us are there. My finds are mine.

So yes group names are fine but they should not be able to claim finds if the group was not together. That is why you have an individual account. But as for stickers I see no problem.

canary wrote: 2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.

While we're examining the fine print, note that not only is it not acceptable to use a sticker, a stamp, or a calling card - it's also not sufficient to just write your name & date. Instead, you must write something about your find in the logbook to claim a find.

Anyway, that's enough trolling. I think that we've overlooked a very important point that someone has made...

Bewilderbeest wrote:You wander away and call "Bananaphone" to signal that you've spotted the cache.

Bananaphone!!

winterdragon wrote: While we're examining the fine print, note that not only is it not acceptable to use a sticker, a stamp, or a calling card - it's also not sufficient to just write your name & date. Instead, you must write something about your find in the logbook to claim a find.

I write something about my find in EVERY logbook that I sign. The date I was there

I actually subscribe to the "Walk away and say found it" method. But I haven't cached with anyone in the field who also did, but then my will is usually forceful enough to enable me to get my way if I want. I've mellowed a bit as I have cached with more people, but I REALLY try to stop short of signing other cacher's names for them or having them sign mine.

Bewilderbeest wrote:If you wanted to be really pedantic about it, groups hunting for caches would have to do what we (my family) do sometimes...everyone looks for the cache, but when you spot it you DONT grab it. You wander away and call "Bananaphone" to signal that you've spotted the cache. The cache is only extracted when everyone has spotted it (or the youngest gives up ).

That way everyone in the group would actually have *found* the cache...

This is the type of thing we do, except we say "Huckle Buckle Bean Stalk" This allows the quick cachers to spot it and they can then assist the younger cachers to locate the cache, if necessary.
Then often one person will sign the log for both, (or sometimes three) teams.

Whilst I am a proponent of the signing of the log theory I do not at all subscribe to any notion that what is written on the Groundspeak web site constitutes any hard and fast rules in geocaching. As a matter of fact after about mid 2005 I think Groundspeak lost any credibility with rule making when the rules you tend to quote are there to benefit/protect Groundspeak not Geocaching as such. As a matter of fact I believe that the Groundspeak influence has had an overall negative effect on many aspects of geocaching. We seem to have too many Muggles that cache these days.

So to the OP I say to stay on topic. I think one signature is sufficient for a group.

I was disapointed that the other thread was locked. Not that I wanted to comment further, just that we felt the need to lock it.

Jardry wrote: My concern with a group find sticker is more to do with there being no way to check that each team in the group was at GZ, (if that is the criteria for a "find") and therefore there is little difference between a group "find" where not all group members individually log their "find" and an individual who decides that they want to play it their way by not signing the log.

Yeah,have to agree with Jardry here. There is no way of checking if all the group was at the cache if a group sticker was placed.
If they were ,thats just seems fine and all had a good time and got to experience each and every cache find for what it was.

If its the other way around , and groups are splitting up and each placing stickers in caches at different locations ,whats the point ???
Whats next....a group of ten each with a car and GPS over 24 hours smashing the records with 70 finds each making a 700 total.

Its all about the discovery of a A/ New location, B/ Scenic spot you didnt know about C/ Great hiding tactic D/ Historical location
E/ New trail you were not aware about and many more great endless reasons for finding a cache.
Couldnt think of anything worse than being involved with a group assault all going various directions and placing group stickers in them all.,and missing out on what the others finds were all about.

But,some are in it for the number tally and they will always find ways to race up the charts quicker. Some will describe it as fair game, others dont care and others will class it as the immoral way to play.

I think most fair dinkum teams out there would rather cache and just find, log the book and enjoy every cache for what great attributes it involves .

pprass wrote:Having said that I have written in the log book on a few occasions the other cachers names of our group when I have found a cache that was awkward to get to (and visa versa) - however we were not trying to break any records in those occasions (if that makes any difference).

Having been party to this, and having done it myself on many occasions: ALL members of the group were present at each cache find.

I don't think it is fair to have team members search in different directions/locations whether attempting a record or not - but how can this be policed?

belken wrote: We seem to have too many Muggles that cache these days.

Huh????