Chasing Records / Group Stickers Sufficient to Log a Find

[roundcircle]

Signing for a cacher that's not actually there doesn't seem fair.

Having one person sign for a group seems okay to me. You don't want to be taking this stuff to seriously. After all, it's just a sport, hobby, game.

I guess the "perfect" cacher would only ever cache alone.

[Bewilderbeest]

If you wanted to be really pedantic about it, groups hunting for caches would have to do what we (my family) do sometimes...everyone looks for the cache, but when you spot it you DONT grab it. You wander away and call "Bananaphone" to signal that you've spotted the cache. The cache is only extracted when everyone has spotted it (or the youngest gives up ).

That way everyone in the group would actually have *found* the cache...

My initial comments were not intended to be directed at family caching - my apologies if this was inferred.

No probs that wasnt how I interpreted it, I was just using what my family does as an example

[Big Matt and Shell]

How would anyone know whether all of the group of cachers were at GZ, or only the cacher that placed the sticker in the log? Being the devil's advocate, what would there be to stop a group teaming up, sharing their group sticker and then claiming finds when not all teams in the group where physically present at GZ at the same time.

When I first read this post on Friday I didn't want to reply straight away to this post, feeling that I had taken the post the wrong way but as it has copied our sticker from another post I can't help but feel that it is directed at us.

I will start by saying that if you wish to question my or any other member of our teams integrity, that you come to me personally and ask....

As you have put this out there, for your information the guidelines we used for the record attempt (what these stickers were used for) were taken from the Geocaching wiki,
As you can see stickers are considered quite acceptable by point 9.

This is NOT intended to flame any caching groups - just curious what others think having regard to the initial thread of expecting individual cachers to physically sign the log to claim a find.

It's all well and good to give lip service at the end of a post but to clearly direct it at a team with your post, this is a waste of breath!

If collective signing of the log by way of a group sticker is considered OK, then so ought to be an individual's choice whether they sign the log.

No, the sticker clearly shows the teams that found it. By not signing a log or making a mark has no proof that anyone was anywhere near the cache.

My initial comments were not intended to be directed at family caching - my apologies if this was inferred.

How is a family with individual logins any different to a team of cachers? You can't have one without the other.

To answer your question, I think that a sticker is a perfectly acceptable way to "sign" a log. As a cache owner I would rather see a team name or a sticker in a log and to use an example already posted such as "Team bananaphone" rather than the individual caching names taking up space, especially in a micro or nano.

[Richary]

I think we all play the way we want to an find fair. If some people want to put in a sticker with a date on it then that's fine by me. If others like me choose to write a story in the book then we do so. Taking the GC "rules" to extremes you can't write about your experience in finding the cache in a nano logbook so they should be banned.

If there is a sticker with multiple teamsters on it, I will happily accept their word that they were all present at the find. To me it doesn't matter who puts their hand on it first. It's the same as any caching, you happen by chance to bump into another cacher in the wild and one of you finds it first. Should the other person never claim it then because they were "shown" where it was? Of course not.

As has been pointed out, should an individual sticker or scribble be required for each player, that still doesn't stop cheating. Or do we analyse the logbook for DNA traces to prove who touched it?

If some people decide to get their numbers up by playing like that, that's for them to feel good about at the end of the day. It's not a competition as far as I'm concerned, and I have just come back from a week on the north coast with a few memorable caches as part of the 40+ finds. Ones that showed me a special spot or provided a good experience/challenge. To me, that's worth more than claiming a smiley for one I didn't find.

Matt, for the record I don't think Jardry was having a go at your team - it was just an example of a good sticker showing all the players - and a better one than some that just show Team XXX with no indication who the players are.

[Jardry]

Will talk with Matt off forum. I will ring you tomorrow.
Happy to remove my response to Matt's post to preserve the integrity of Matt and myself without making further public comment in this forum.

[Big Matt and Shell]

There are obviously some misunderstandings here from both sides. I'll contact Jardry offline as per his suggestion to discuss.

[gmj3191]

My simple view is that the sticker is fine, but all claiming a find should at least initial the log to keep within the spirit of the activity, as in it's simplest form, geocaching is a hunt, find and log both the cache log and the web site.
If you can't do that, then you shouldn't claim the find.

[FarmerFrentzen]

This is NOT intended to flame any caching groups - just curious what others think having regard to the initial thread of expecting individual cachers to physically sign the log to claim a find.

I'm afraid I find it difficult to accept that the comments have not been intended to "flame" a particular group. The fact that you have decided to precede the title of the thread with "Chasing Records," and used the stickers from our record attempt as the example, implies to any reasonable interpretation that the comments are directed at our team rather than the simple use of group stickers to sign logs.

Will talk with Matt off forum. I will ring you tomorrow.
Happy to remove my response to Matt's post to preserve the integrity of Matt and myself without making further public comment in this forum.

I look forward to hearing some feedback from Matt after this occurs.

[Jardry]

This is NOT intended to flame any caching groups - just curious what others think having regard to the initial thread of expecting individual cachers to physically sign the log to claim a find.

I'm afraid I find it difficult to accept that the comments have not been intended to "flame" a particular group. The fact that you have decided to precede the title of the thread with "Chasing Records," and used the stickers from our record attempt as the example, implies to any reasonable interpretation that the comments are directed at our team rather than the simple use of group stickers to sign logs.

Your comment only enflames the situation!

Why couldn't you wait until I had spoken with Matt before making your comment.

I'm fed up with the whole issue. As far as I'm concerned, having regard to the previous thread about what constituted a legitimate "find", unless every member of a team has initialed the log, a group sticker is insufficient evidence to confirm that ALL members of the team where present at GZ.

As this obviously has caused you some angst, I doubt anything I would say would make any difference, so what point is there in having any discussion off forum, when your comments remain on the forum to only aggravate the situation.

[caughtatwork]

My reading of the OP is a discussion about group stickers in general. It was not intended as a flame fest against the specific team mentioned in the stickers. That images was provided as an EXAMPLE, not directed at an INDIVIDUAL or GROUP of individuals.

So much for people being adults

This is NOT a discussion about the individuals in the picture in the OP. Either stick to the subject as to whether group stickers are sufficient to indicate every member of the group was in attendance or start another thread.

Any more attacks will cause this thread to be shut down.

[Philipp]

here are my 0.50 €

If you are just group-caching I wouldn't care if just one guy signed the logbook for everybody else or if you put a group-sticker in there. Everybody could have signed the logbook for themselves however that wouldn't have added any value.

But.

If you go out there and claim something like "Record", "Best of" or "Challenge" you have to have some integrity. Just logging the book once or putting a sticker in there adds value: time. A thing you are always short of when it comes to a record. Yes, you still found the cache but you definitely didn't beat/set the record.

[Jardry]

I look forward to hearing some feedback from Matt after this occurs.

I have called Matt and we have had a discussion and cleared up any misconceptions there may have been.

We have both been able to see the others point of view and how words don't necessarily reflect intent.

To all team members of the record attempt, please accept that there was no ulterior motive in the OP.

As I explained to Matt, the comment would have been made in the initial thread if it were not closed by the moderator.

The intent would then have been much clearer as a continuation of the comments being made in that thread as to what constituted a legitimate "find".

[The Rats]

I look forward to hearing some feedback from Matt after this occurs.

I have called Matt and we have had a discussion and cleared up any misconceptions there may have been.

We have both been able to see the others point of view and how words don't necessarily reflect intent.

To all team members of the record attempt, please accept that there was no ulterior motive in the OP.

As I explained to Matt, the comment would have been made in the initial thread if it were not closed by the moderator.

The intent would then have been much clearer as a continuation of the comments being made in that thread as to what constituted a legitimate "find".

Explanation accepted
Happy caching - regards "The rats"

[FarmerFrentzen]

Explanation accepted
Happy caching - regards "The rats"

Indeed. Apologies for the misunderstanding and I have no objection to healthy discussion on the topic at hand.

All the best and happy hunting!

[Team Wibble]

Although I think everything's more or less been resolved in this thread, I did want to add that some of the confusion might have come from the fact that the initial question raised was a spin off from another thread that not everyone in this thread might have been aware of: http://forum.geocaching.com.au/viewtopi ... =8&t=14911 which was more concerned with the concept of not signing the log book at all, and the sticker issue morphed out of that.

I think some people might have seen this thread as a "all stickers are bad, especially when they're for groups of cachers" without understanding some of the issues that preceded that in the other thread. Might have resulted in a different frame of reference for some people.

Or I might have just confused people further. If that's the case, pretend you never read this