Love and Hate

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Geodes
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Re: Love and Hate

Post by Geodes » 03 August 10 5:06 pm

caughtatwork wrote:I'll put aside the comments about destruction of someone else's property. I think there might be a law against that, but that's for a different thread.
I think that picking up and disposing of geocaches would probably be considered a community service in many sections of the community :cry:
caughtatwork wrote:The forums reach no where near enough people to make a difference. Even the people that it does reach aren't likely to pay attention. They will continue to play the game they want. There can never be a law about how to play geocaching. To expect people to play the game nice is fine, but don't set an expectation onto them to play it your way.

A code of conduct does not try to embarrass me into complying with it and is voluntary anyway.
There were probably similar thoughts expressed a long time ago when it was suggested that everyone keep to the left when traveling along public thoroughfares.

Don't underestimate the effect that peer pressure and expectations can have on the development of a community's concept of what is right :!:

Traditionally, it's been the responsibility of the elders and more experienced members of a community to determine what constitutes a decent behavioural standard. Even if many (especially newer) cachers don't read these forums; if they remain active long enough, they will inevitably come into contact with more experienced cachers and ideas can and will be exchanged.

I don't see why you don't seem to want to even consider, let alone embrace, the concept of continual feedback and improvement.

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Re: Love and Hate

Post by caughtatwork » 03 August 10 5:22 pm

Pardon? I have said that we should embrace the differences between people and caches.

Making everyone think and act the same way (road rules, etc) lead to no fun for anyone, even if those who deem themselves in-charge think it's for the betterment of the community.

My opinion is a valid as yours and I let you have you opinion without attack (all my comments, explicit stated a number of time are to the generic "you" rather than to the poster), yet attacks are directed at me personally.

Why? What's your problem? (Specifically you). Do you simply not accept and embrace the fact that there are people who play the game differently, using a different website, using different tools? Why can I not have an opinion without being picked on?

No wonder people stay away from interesting discussions. In the usual fashion they become an attack when something is put forward that they can't comprehend, so they attack and hope it will die under the constant barrage.

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Geodes
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Re: Love and Hate

Post by Geodes » 03 August 10 5:49 pm

caughtatwork wrote:Pardon? I have said that we should embrace the differences between people and caches.

Making everyone think and act the same way (road rules, etc) lead to no fun for anyone, even if those who deem themselves in-charge think it's for the betterment of the community.
If driving down a freeway on the wrong side of the road is your idea of fun, then I fear there's a gulf between us that I cannot cross :cry:
caughtatwork wrote:My opinion is a valid as yours and I let you have you opinion without attack (all my comments, explicit stated a number of time are to the generic "you" rather than to the poster), yet attacks are directed at me personally.

Why? What's your problem? (Specifically you). Do you simply not accept and embrace the fact that there are people who play the game differently, using a different website, using different tools? Why can I not have an opinion without being picked on?
(There are no rules - I can pick on you if I want to :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: )

Seriously, I'm sorry if I upset you - it's just that I thought the OP simply wanted to get some sort of consensus of what constituted good and bad aspects of geocaching - hopefully with the aim of providing some guidance for newer members who might be interested in how to make their caches more popular and attractive. You seem to want to over-emphasise the fact that everyone can do what they like which, while true, may not be in the best interests of the community at all times.
caughtatwork wrote:No wonder people stay away from interesting discussions. In the usual fashion they become an attack when something is put forward that they can't comprehend, so they attack and hope it will die under the constant barrage.
Is that what you're doing now?

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Re: Love and Hate

Post by caughtatwork » 03 August 10 6:48 pm

But we're not talking road rules, we're talking geocaching. So there is every free right in the world to cache differently.

In terms of abuse, actually there are rules.
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Geocaching Australia” is hosted or International Law.
I have no problem with the OP seeking input on what constituted good and bad aspects of geocaching. The position that I am putting is that what person A thinks is not what person B thinks and they should be allowed to have that difference.

Trying to raise the bar or lift the standard is pointless because what you see is not what you see and what you know is not what I know.

So a discussion, even a robust discussion with both sides vehemently putting their point, is good for the community, but don't expect that the community will lie down and accept person A's position as the be all and end all.

To quote dak.
I hate 'em in rocks.

Others love them in rocks.

Both should learn to live together with neither side putting the other down.

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the farmers 5
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Re: Love and Hate

Post by the farmers 5 » 03 August 10 6:51 pm

pprass wrote: What we love and hate about geocaching

Love:
1. The excitement of exploring a new location and experiencing wonderful sights, information and scenery.
2. Pouring over maps to work out how to get to interesting locations and being able to navigate a course to minimise effort. (ie walking :oops: )
3.The hunt for tricky caches and being surprised by innovative hides.
4.Finding a cache that has been neglected for a long time due to isolation, or some terrain obstacle.
5. The feeling that you are doing something that nobody around you knows about.
6. Meeting other cachers and striking up a conversation as though you have known them all your life.
7. Finding a cache with the minimum of information – ie just reading the cache page, so that it feels like an FTF for us even though it may have been placed years ago.
8. Reading logs from cachers that have had an entertaining time and take the trouble to write a log that has more than 1 sentence (or one anagram for that matter).
.
We would have to agree with these original " Top 8 loves " of geocaching. =D> =D>
All seem to fit in exactly to what geocaching probaly is to most teams.
Now, that No 8/...........if we could just get teams to write a sentence or two as respect to the cache owner who often have placed
a great cache with a top location, scenic spot or illusion ,that would be nice. If Australia's greatest finders in Maccamob can write over 9,000 logs with hardly any log under two or three lines long, some others should be able to write more than TFTF......or "nice hide,thanks.Never saw the great DAK write a log under 2 or 3 lines no matter how plain the cache might have seemed. :shock: :shock:
Anyway,back to the original top 8 .Well done Peter.Its what we all think is great about Geocaching around Australia. :D :D :D

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Geodes
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Re: Love and Hate

Post by Geodes » 03 August 10 6:55 pm

caughtatwork wrote:But we're not talking road rules, we're talking geocaching. So there is every free right in the world to cache differently.
No one has ever questioned this - it's just not what this thread is about!

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Re: Love and Hate

Post by caughtatwork » 03 August 10 6:59 pm

Geodes wrote:
caughtatwork wrote:But we're not talking road rules, we're talking geocaching. So there is every free right in the world to cache differently.
No one has ever questioned this - it's just not what this thread is about!
pprass wrote:In particular I am hoping that some of the less active cachers in the more remote areas take note of opinions such as this so that they can be more aware of what we (the caching community) like and dislike. (a contradiction I know as they are less likely to read the Forum, but it can't hurt, can it :?)
Yes it is. An attempt to get other cachers to change their habits so that it makes it better for some. Otherwise why say anything?

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Re: Love and Hate

Post by Geodes » 03 August 10 7:31 pm

caughtatwork wrote:Yes it is. An attempt to get other cachers to change their habits so that it makes it better for some. Otherwise why say anything?
If someone isn't aware of what other cachers really like and dislike about various aspects of caching, they may inadvertently do things that offend. This thread isn't about passing rules or forcing compliance with a set of guidelines - it's just about airing what people think are good and bad points about the whole process of placing them and finding them. Obviously, no-one is expected to consider them to be carved in stone but, if readers are curious about how to make their caches more attractive, then they might get some ideas from such a thread.

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Re: Love and Hate

Post by caughtatwork » 03 August 10 7:45 pm

Gotcha.

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Re: Love and Hate

Post by pprass » 03 August 10 9:27 pm

Geodes wrote:This thread isn't about passing rules or forcing compliance with a set of guidelines - it's just about airing what people think are good and bad points about the whole process of placing them and finding them. Obviously, no-one is expected to consider them to be carved in stone but, if readers are curious about how to make their caches more attractive, then they might get some ideas from such a thread.
I believe Geodes has summarised very eloquently what the original intention of this post was, but unfortunately the discussion has been diverted into what C@W believes is an imposition of someones will over others. If it helps C@W - I understand what you are saying, but you can't argue against freedom of speech and hoping that people will take some note of what is being said.

I am also very aware that we have only dwelled on the negatives of this thread and congratulate The Farmers in pointing out that the positives are what they consider to be some of their likes about the game as well.

BTW - am I also imposing my will on cachers about what they should like about caching? Or is it my opinion and I would like to see if there is agreement?

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Re: Love and Hate

Post by cantanga » 03 August 10 10:30 pm

Love:
1) Great locations of caches.
2) The fact that I discover more great locations due to caches being there.
3) The trek through bushland to caches
4) the fact that if I am feeling lazy (and bored) I have the option of drivebys to fill in time
5) The fact that if I'm not feeling lazy I can do caches that require a bit of a bush walk
6) the mind exercise of trying to solve mystery (even though I can't solve many) and
7)finding that the answer to a mystery
8) Trying to find ways of not being a doofus when muggles are walking past when I'm doing a city micro
9) The feeling you get after spending a day walking 20km through thick bushland just to find 3 caches.
10) Being FTF on the caches mentioned in point 9
11) The "thrill of the chase" on caches with a decent trek to get there


Hate:
1) Unmaintained caches (soggy, missing container, log book unusable etc)
2) Spending a day doing a series only to find that 50% or more are unmaintained or missing
3) The residual pain for 2 days after completing a day walking 20km through thick bushland just to find 3 caches.
4) Trying to find ways of not being a doofus when muggles are walking past when I'm doing a city micro
5) The thrill of an FTF hunt (exciting as it is I find I just push to hard to get there or get really anxious if another person shows up). Luckily I don't commonly have this problem as someone seems to find them 10 min after they are posted in the ACT
6) finding that the answer to the mystery I have been working on for 3 months was so damn simple and obvious ](*,)
7) Trying to find something to write on the 2nd of a series of caches, I normally have the exciting parts written in cache 1.

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Re: Love and Hate

Post by ruzzelz » 03 August 10 10:58 pm

The original top 8 all seem fine to me throw in safe, legal and ethical and that is all you need for good caching.

Oh yes somebody has already thought about that http://www.geocreed.info/

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Re: Love and Hate

Post by tronador » 03 August 10 11:51 pm

cantanga wrote:Love:
1) Great locations of caches.
2) The fact that I discover more great locations due to caches being there.
3) The trek through bushland to caches
4) the fact that if I am feeling lazy (and bored) I have the option of drivebys to fill in time
5) The fact that if I'm not feeling lazy I can do caches that require a bit of a bush walk
6) the mind exercise of trying to solve mystery (even though I can't solve many) and
7)finding that the answer to a mystery
8) Trying to find ways of not being a doofus when muggles are walking past when I'm doing a city micro
9) The feeling you get after spending a day walking 20km through thick bushland just to find 3 caches.
10) Being FTF on the caches mentioned in point 9
11) The "thrill of the chase" on caches with a decent trek to get there


Hate:
1) Unmaintained caches (soggy, missing container, log book unusable etc)
2) Spending a day doing a series only to find that 50% or more are unmaintained or missing
3) The residual pain for 2 days after completing a day walking 20km through thick bushland just to find 3 caches.
4) Trying to find ways of not being a doofus when muggles are walking past when I'm doing a city micro
5) The thrill of an FTF hunt (exciting as it is I find I just push to hard to get there or get really anxious if another person shows up). Luckily I don't commonly have this problem as someone seems to find them 10 min after they are posted in the ACT
6) finding that the answer to the mystery I have been working on for 3 months was so damn simple and obvious ](*,)
7) Trying to find something to write on the 2nd of a series of caches, I normally have the exciting parts written in cache 1.
These are great. There is isn't anything I "hate " about caching. Even the hate list here leaves me with good memories. The DNF, soggy logbook, waterfilled container, the embarrassment caused by city micros.... I remember them all and I love writing about them all in logs. The good and bad, it's rather therapeutic to relive the caching day with an online log.

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Re: Love and Hate

Post by Richary » 03 August 10 11:55 pm

Crikey this thread has taken off since I last looked at it last night. I agree with C@Ws statement that no matter how many people read this we won't change the views of the great mass of cachers who don't read it. That said, I also don't see it as unproductive because those of us who do read it might get something out of it to make our hides better. And those who are newbies now might discover this forum later and make their future hides better.

Yes we all have differences in what we enjoy. I don't particularly enjoy inner city nanos where you can't get a decent lock and there are always hundreds of people around. But that's just me, and if you enjoy hiding and finding those then go for it. I don't really like playground caches especially where they are hidden in the equipment. But if I pass the playground and it is empty then I will get the smiley.

As I said about 3 pages ago you learn whose caches you enjoy, and whose you don't. If a particular hider always puts out caches that you personally find lame, then just ignore them. You aren't forced to find them.

That said, there is nothing stopping the select few of us who are reading this from lifting our game. If I have a cache that only ever gets TFTC type logs, I figure I have not made the experience that good. So I won't replicate that in the future. Then again, I do have what I know are good caches there (from previous feedback) that get those logs as well, generally from newbies who don't know any better. How to educate people to write a log that is more satisfying to the owner? Well a forum like this is one method.

Just because there are a huge amount of cachers who never read this and never will, does that mean we shouldn't use the opportunity to educate those few who will? And even if one person writes a better log or places a better cache because of it, the rest of us will have a slightly better experience.

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Re: Love and Hate

Post by belken » 04 August 10 8:09 am

Whilst a great deal of cachers may not read this geocaching is a great example of how a small group of people can funnel the energies of a lot. (I speak of Groundspeak). Geocaching as its exists today for a great majority of cachers is directly influenced by what Groundspeak is prepared to do. A lot of what they are prepared to do is what benefits the corporation not always the hobby.

Given that then I don't think its a waste of time to at least attempt something. Small things can govern behaviour. I notice the 10 year anniversary promotion from the GCA perspective. Something simple produced a result. If you look deeper then some of the results are not what you wanted. ie dual listings and archiving of GCA caches immediately after receiving some sort of prize. But overall a result.

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