Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Geocaching Australia governance issues
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CraigRat
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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by CraigRat » 15 March 10 9:29 pm

Big Matt and Shell wrote:
richary wrote:I'm not proposing a system of GC style reviewers as someone suggested, but the reviewers that are being set up to clean up abandoned and missing caches could also (if the Senate decides) look at ones that are still there but getting SBA logs for this sort of reason.
Mr Rat or C@W, what happens to these caches currently (or when the person(s) described in this post in in place)?
c@w or myself kill off the ones that we deem need killing (no container or obvious issue), otherwise we place a reviewer note and life goes on for that cache

There is a misconception that GCA does not archive caches. This hasn't been true for years. ALL SBA notes get reviewed. We just want other people to do it so we can concentrate on other stuff.

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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by CraigRat » 15 March 10 9:30 pm

snap!

geoskid
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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by geoskid » 15 March 10 11:00 pm

pjamesk wrote:
geoskid wrote:Is it possible for Geocachers to abide by rules?
If people don't it refects on all geocachers and makes it harder to bring about change.
Thats a fact, I agree. So if we assume that all Geocachers can abide by (NSW PWS) Rules, there should'nt be any new physical caches in NSW PWS boundaries to list (all the while the ban is in place). And Pigs might fly.
If someone hides, and GCA lists, people will attempt to find - and damage attempts to have the ban lifted. GCA might not want any responsibility here, but Geocaching does'nt fly under the radar anymore.

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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by geoskid » 16 March 10 12:28 am

pjamesk wrote:
Well it’s up to you, but if the land manager has a GCA/GC account they might find out and remove it. Bit like a game of cat and mouse.

From this I find myself asking two questions.

1. If TPWS don't know much about caching and they are asked if they allow it or not, could this stir up a hornets nest and are we prepared for their response if it is not in our favour.

2. If we stand by and do nothing (head in the sand) and it gets banned then what?
They definitely know about us:
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... ing#p29885 . Tastrax, the original poster of the thread linked to is employed by NPWS, and fairly high up from what I can gather (asset management?) from his previous posts - and I might add he comes across as very level-headed and fair minded. Also, the thread started after an earlier thread about food drops by bushwalkers being placed all over the place. (hence the title Food drops 2).
I very much hope that we can get away without directly asking them officially, and giving them cause to ban Geocaching. If we stand by and do nothing (about our attitudes/methods of hiding/finding) we will go the way of NSW and QLD NP's. We have all seen the mess clumsy finding methods cause, but also hiders need to take this into account and hide in hardened areas and give good clues.
Lets face it - it was cachers that caused the bans in NSW and QLD, and it does'nt take many.

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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by Damo. » 16 March 10 1:09 am

geoskid wrote: Lets face it - it was cachers that caused the bans in NSW and QLD, and it does'nt take many.
That's a rather short-sighted statement!

My opinion would be the bans were the result of the Park organisations becoming aware of Geocaching and in the absence of any formal entity to consult with, and little understanding of the environmental impact, made up their own minds to ban it as it didn't fit within the "organised activities" allowed in parks.
In both NSW and Qld, cache placement in National Parks were stopped after Groundspeak were contacted by the relevant land managers.

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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by geoskid » 16 March 10 8:19 am

Damo. wrote:
My opinion would be the bans were the result of the Park organisations becoming aware of Geocaching and in the absence of any formal entity to consult with, and little understanding of the environmental impact, made up their own minds to ban it as it didn't fit within the "organised activities" allowed in parks.
Yes, but what made them become aware, what drew their attention to Geocaching in the first place? I think they would be very aware of the potential for environmental impact - hence the bans.
My point was , it is up to the Geocaching community alone to show that all cachers can cache in a way that Parks will be happy with.

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Richary
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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by Richary » 16 March 10 9:30 pm

geoskid wrote: Yes, but what made them become aware, what drew their attention to Geocaching in the first place? I think they would be very aware of the potential for environmental impact - hence the bans.
My point was , it is up to the Geocaching community alone to show that all cachers can cache in a way that Parks will be happy with.
They probably became aware like many of us did. Being introduced to it by friends, reading a newspaper article, or a radio interview. It's no longer an underground sport, I was interviewed on Adelaide ABC Drive years ago about it and it occasionally gets a write up in the newspapers.

Like the rest of us they looked into it, but instead of looking at it in a way of "is this a hobby I want to try" looked at it from the point of view of their job.

I think it unlikely they looked at an area of environmental damage and decided to work out the cause and discovered a cache. They probably found out about caching then started noticing damage around some caches.

I always consider the environmental impact of placing a cache, I have seen too many geotrails formed where someone thought it was a good spot, but didn't realise that a few people scrambling up the same grassy bank over a month would start to leave a noticeable mark.

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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by caughtatwork » 16 March 10 9:32 pm

Be aware that the gecaching policy from NSW P&WS is dated 2002. Yes, 8 years ago. This is not a recent development. It's been been banned for a long, long time.

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Richary
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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by Richary » 16 March 10 9:36 pm

Hmmm, that probably means they were told about it by friends then. Hey mate, let me show you this groovy thing someone has hidden in the park you work at. :cry:

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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by caughtatwork » 16 March 10 10:22 pm

At the end of 2002 (let's say it was the end that the ban was enacted), there were 356 caches in NSW. At the end of 2009 (excluding trigpoints) there are around 6,400 (or so).

To say that our behaviour over the last 7 years is what triggered the ban is disingenuous considering that the number of caches increased by 6,000 with the ban in place.

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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by geoskid » 17 March 10 12:30 am

caughtatwork wrote: To say that our behaviour over the last 7 years is what triggered the ban is disingenuous considering that the number of caches increased by 6,000 with the ban in place.
Thats not what I said. I was aware of what the approx. time of the banning of caching in NSW NP's was, and I was referring to the period prior to the ban.

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Re: Grey Areas - GCA No Go Zones.

Post by pjamesk » 17 March 10 6:25 am

geoskid wrote:They definitely know about us:
yes I know they know about us I ahve been sent emails about geocaching where the sender has taken the liberty to cc in some TPWS managers.

I don't think its so much that geocaching has a tarnished image but more that it is not understood. It is hard for policy makers to write a policy if they understand it or can't find anyone to help them its easier just to bann it.
unfortunatly these policies only get reviewed usually at a minimum of 5 years or longer.

Geocaching Tasmania inc. are making headway with other government organisations. A bit like a testing ground and seeing what their thought are on geocaching. results have been positive so far and in some cases I have been supprised.
I have been trying to hold a geocaching event at Port Arthur at night. not easy to do with out their permission. At first they were against geocaching. once it was explained to them they were keen for me to place a cache in the historic site to attract people or get them to see more of the site. talks stalled over their busy season but have resumed now.

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