GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Geocaching Australia governance issues

Should GCA STOP listing new caches in banned zones?

Yes
157
64%
No
89
36%
 
Total votes: 246

canary
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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by canary » 21 December 09 11:11 pm

While I know geocaching is specifically banned in NPWS controlled areas, is geocaching actually ALLOWED anywhere?

I did some great caches today in parkland and along the M7 cycleway.

Were they allowed to be there? Or is that the game? Finding things that other people don't know about, that are "illegal" and "underground".

Don't know my own opinion yet, still tossing to and fro.

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by PesceVerde » 22 December 09 12:31 am

If GCA bans new cache listings in affected areas it will show that GCA is mindful, not that geocachers are (Notwithstanding the poll vote at about 75%YES and 25%NO) Different states/areas seem to have slightly different immediate concerns.

If some cachers can't or don't care enough now to be 'good geocaching citizens', it's unlikely they'll change if and hopefully when any official bans are eased.

I'm sure the legal points would be considered carefully.

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by grahamf72 » 23 December 09 9:09 am

Papa Bear_Left wrote: Ask i,riblit how many NP caches he knocks back in Qld and NSW in a typical week, and whether that number's gone down much over time...
That's a concern - the question then is, how many of them are retrieved once denied?

I have a friend who placed a cache in this scenario on Fraser Island. All of Fraser is NP. He goes there about 3 times a year so maintanence isn't an issue, and each time he goes he finds some of the existing caches. So his latest trip he decided to place one of his own. Got home, made the listing, only to have it denied by iRiblit because of the NP rule. The cache will stay there until next time he goes up there. Because he doesn't read forums he didn't know about the ban. Perhaps for caches that are allowed to stay in those areas, a header on the cache page saying "WARNING, THIS CACHE IS AN AREA WHERE GEOCACHING IS NOW BANNED, BUT WAS PLACED BEFORE THE BAN WAS PUT IN PLACE". (could this be something for papa-bear-left to feed back to GC?).

Most potential hiders would have found several caches before they go hiding a new one, so they are likely to see at least one cache with a header like that, that would alert potential hiders to the issues of hiding a new cache in the area - assuming the header was on GC. I would hazard a guess that most of the GCA users, are also GCA Forum users, so _should_ already know.

Anyway, as for should GCA list caches in restricted areas - I think it should, but with a warning not only to hiders, but to viewers of the cache page also. By doing this it will make more people aware of the issues, and will likely reduce the incidence of people placing caches only to find out AFTERWARDS that it is not allowed.

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by caughtatwork » 23 December 09 9:32 am

A warning on a grandfathered cache is an excellent idea and should we get to that point, one that will be adopted.
A most excellent suggestion.

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by Hunter-Finder » 23 December 09 9:45 am

theUMP wrote:
caughtatwork wrote:As another thought for feedback then, if (when) we end up not listing caches in banned zones, how can we encourage people to check the area they are thinking of hiding a cache before they head out?
Oh, if someone can come up with a good answer to this one, can I borrow it to apply to gc.com guidelines?! [-o<
Could we get the map makers to outline the NP's in Red so then people would know the restricted boundaries. Maybe even change the vegetation colour from green to light red so there would be no mistakes made. :wink:

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by caughtatwork » 23 December 09 9:50 am

Your suggestion is already on the cards at the GCA website.
CraigRat is currently working on a method of presenting banned areas on the Google Maps that don't cause a huge slowdown in performance. As the polygons are rendered in JavaScript on your machine, we're trying to balance benefit to time.

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by CraigRat » 23 December 09 10:30 am

It's the having-to-go-get-a-coffee-every-time-you-move-the-map that is a problem right now

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by Tuena » 23 December 09 10:40 am

The case for placing a plastic box in a NP could be considered academic anyway as there is an alternative. That alternative is already gaining momentum with traditional caches being archived & replaced with virtuals. Groundspeak could be approached to reintroduce virtuals. I'm assuming here that DECC NSW would allow such caches. If virtuals don't appeal, then perhaps a Trig would. Bushwalkers often look for Trigs so NP rangers should have no concerns if geocachers also join in.

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by caughtatwork » 23 December 09 10:42 am

That's what GCA offers that GC don't.
TP's and Virtuals make for good alternatives to a physical container in an area that has had Geocaching banned.
GCA will continue to permit these listings in banned areas.

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by PesceVerde » 23 December 09 12:12 pm

... TP's and Virtuals make for good alternatives to a physical container in an area that has had Geocaching banned.
GCA will continue to permit these listings in banned areas.
It seems that caches are banned in some areas, and not banned but not really allowed either in others. Could you clarify which areas GCA considers to be banned areas? Thanks.


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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by CraigRat » 23 December 09 4:05 pm

PesceVerde wrote:
... TP's and Virtuals make for good alternatives to a physical container in an area that has had Geocaching banned.
GCA will continue to permit these listings in banned areas.
It seems that caches are banned in some areas, and not banned but not really allowed either in others. Could you clarify which areas GCA considers to be banned areas? Thanks.
My thinkiong so far on this is only places there is legislation or policy that specifically bans geocaching by name and that we have the data for.
It's all we can do with what we've got.

We won't get involved with the grey areas, only the black and white ones. We are not lawyers.

A good case is the BCC issue in QLD, is there and actual, written in legislation policy banning geocaching, or is it something they've banned under some obtuse rule?

Also, let it be noted that at this moment there is no actual banning happening, this is the first of probably a few discussions. Once the poll is finished we will be consulting with everyone to move this a direction that most poeple want.

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by caughtatwork » 23 December 09 9:39 pm

grahamf72 wrote:Anyway, as for should GCA list caches in restricted areas - I think it should, but with a warning not only to hiders, but to viewers of the cache page also. By doing this it will make more people aware of the issues, and will likely reduce the incidence of people placing caches only to find out AFTERWARDS that it is not allowed.
Warning for seekers regarding geocaches in banned zones has now been placed in the cache page.

Examples.
GCA: http://geocaching.com.au/cache/ga0121
GC: http://geocaching.com.au/cache/gc10xz8

Thanks for the suggestion. A most worthy use of pixels :-)

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by ruzzelz » 23 December 09 10:07 pm

I'm concerned with the listing for Brisbane

Zone Description:

Brisbane City Council managed region (approx).

Geocachers should note that caches places in this region may be subject to B.C.C's policies and unauthorised caches could be subject to removal.

To my knowledge there is still no offical policy from the Brisbane City Council on Caching. The only developments I have been aware of are as follows
1. An individual Parks Officer in the Mt Cootha area takes it upon him or herself to remove caches often outside normal working hours.
2. There has been limited communications with some persons who have contacted council informing them that a person is preparing a policy on caching.
3. The Councillor I contacted is on the issue is an officer holder on the Family and Community Services Committee of the BCC.
http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE ... pc=PC_5618

4. The Councillor acknowledged the potential for caching to promote and provide opportunities for Brisbane residents to have an active and healthy lifestyle.

5. Brisbane Geocachers do not appear to have made any more contact with the council officer who is apparently preparing the policy.
Last edited by ruzzelz on 23 December 09 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned

Post by caughtatwork » 23 December 09 10:10 pm

Refer other topic, but if you can give me some appropriate verbiage, I'll update the zone description.

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