Future Games

A place to talk about the Geocaching Australia dragonZone and other games
Team737
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Re: Future Games

Post by Team737 » 14 June 21 10:03 am

caughtatwork wrote:
01 June 21 2:00 pm
..... The time of the geocache game has probably drawn to a close. We have one more activity scheduled for later this year and then I'll put the games to rest, if not indefinitely, then at least for a long while. .....
From someone who is fairly new to GCA games, I do find that pretty disappointing. Games and other promos is what pushes us out to find more GCA caches (apart from trigs).

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Now_To_Morrow
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Re: Future Games

Post by Now_To_Morrow » 11 April 22 5:04 pm

It has been raised in another thread on this forum that some people might like to play another game soon. So I'm bumping this thread to start conversations back up about the idea.

:!: I encourage you all to read the previous conversation in this thread to see or refresh your memory on what was discussed about games last year. There is an explanation for the reduced number/pause of games, as well as a few ideas thrown in there.

Once you've had a read of the past posts, it would be good to get your thoughts on whether you'd like to see another game run, and what it might look like for you to enjoy. Of course it is impossible to satisfy everyone with varying places, personalities, and predicaments so not every suggestion will be used obviously, but why not throw it in anyway - have your voice heard.

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oldfella
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Re: Future Games

Post by oldfella » 12 April 22 8:12 am

What ever happens the Dragon Zone points manipulators will be the only winners. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. I am one of those who because of the area I live in am very restricted with being able to find any GCA hides and I wonder at times if I am wasting my time in placing hides to meet the requirements of the game when they are hardly ever found. My 32 in the Geo art series is a prime example.

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caughtatwork
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Re: Future Games

Post by caughtatwork » 12 April 22 9:46 am

Just a cacher wrote:
11 April 22 7:30 pm
I am always keen to help GA, and I like placing larger containers. I would enjoy placing a few caches with a theme or whatever you have in mind. I can travel a fair distance for placing and maintenance, say 150km around Canberra, without too much stress.

However, I think dragonzone is more divisive than inclusive, and I'd rather not be involved with that.

Wendy
oldfella wrote:
12 April 22 7:07 am
I am in and can assist with placements and can place hides within reasonable drive from Bundaberg. Say 100 to 150 Klm. I also agree with Wendy However, I think dragon zone is more divisive than inclusive, and I'd rather not be involved with that. We will again have those who are very competitive with Dragon Zone and again will manipulate it to suit their own gains.
If we do decide to proceed with any new games, the question over why this is current thinking needs to be explained and details of how it can be made better provided.

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oldfella
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Re: Future Games

Post by oldfella » 12 April 22 10:41 am

This is only a game and it is played by the individual the way a individual wants to play it. I do like to participate and will do by bit even if I get no real benefit out of it because of where I live and QLD is not an active GCA state. I have proven my involvement and support of GCA in the past and I actively promote GCA so my opinion is relevant as far as I am concerned.

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caughtatwork
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Re: Future Games

Post by caughtatwork » 12 April 22 10:52 am

You are welcome to you opinion. Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I'm asking why you think dZ is divisive? Without knowing why you believe that I can seek to change my understanding.

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oldfella
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Re: Future Games

Post by oldfella » 12 April 22 10:59 am

I have edited my original post and as this is just a game to me I will play it my way without even thinking about dragon zone points and Dragon Zone point chasers can play it their way. I will let those who are really into Dragon Zone give definitive answers. I do and will always support and promote GCA even though my opinion and interpretation my disagree with others.

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Just a cacher
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Re: Future Games

Post by Just a cacher » 12 April 22 4:49 pm

Re: Dragonzone being divisive.

Dragonzone pits one group against another, dividing them. Cerberus against Minotaur, for example. I can't comfortably go on a day out caching with other cachers unless they are in my colour group. Not that I cache in groups much, but lots of people do. I believe the whole point of Dragonzone is to compete against the other colours, isn't it? My colour group has more caches, zones, states, than another colour group? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how it looks to me.

In some cases, especially in country areas, a 'group' can go through a zone and change caches' allegiance, and even zones' allegiance, and while this looks like fun at the start, it often seems to end up as a group against one lone geocacher who lives in the area. Steve and I did a bit of this at the start, until we realised just how unfair it felt to us. In fact, it feels a lot like bullying, in some cases, especially if you can only get out into one or two zones, and you keep on going there.

Even a game where you find caches, like the recent battleships game (which I REALLY enjoyed, actually), is tainted with Dragonzone colours. Every cache I found for the game gave me points for my colour as well, I think.

I admit that I have stopped playing Dragonzone, so my information may be a bit out of date. I do go into my Dragonzone page and collect my daily points - out of habit, I guess. And I deploy maximum points on every cache I find, because I was asked to do that by another member of 'my' colour group, once, and I just keep doing it. I don't know what it does.

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Now_To_Morrow
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Re: Future Games

Post by Now_To_Morrow » 12 April 22 6:43 pm

Just a cacher wrote:
12 April 22 4:49 pm

In some cases, especially in country areas, a 'group' can go through a zone and change caches' allegiance, and even zones' allegiance, and while this looks like fun at the start, it often seems to end up as a group against one lone geocacher who lives in the area.
This is very true, but it's part of the entire dragonZone game, not to do with seasonal games like moveable races, sports challenges, or battleships. This discussion is meant to be about those seasonal games. I actually love the feeling of changing a zone to Griffin even if it only lasts a day. Right now I'd love to see Cerberus take over the Lismore zone on their way to or from the mega. :twisted: :griffin
(BTW I'm pretty sure most or all the Lions Club Geoart caches are swimming in the Pacific Ocean)

People can enjoy playing a game and ignore the dZ points and what it all means. I used to get narky about what I considered pushing boundaries, but I've since figured I can choose to play or not play, and play my own way and let others play their own way. It's just games. Just little extra challenges. No one has to take part in them. It's a lot like books at a library - you can have a library card but you don't have to like the content of them all or read them all. You can pick and choose.

But if you are competitive or just like winning, or never get near the top 10 or more that get pathtag prizes, then sure it's going to get under your skin. Regarding the pathtags, if i choose to play, it's a dice I choose to roll. It would be nice to have a pathtag for all who actually participate in the games, no matter what contribution you make, but there are a limit of how many tags are printed and they do cost someone money. I understand that. If you put in a lot of time and petrol (holy cow it costs a lot now!) into participating in the games then it would feel nice to be rewarded with a pathtag. Haha.

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caughtatwork
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Re: Future Games

Post by caughtatwork » 13 April 22 9:07 am

I would love to give a reward for every participant and we used to, but there a different game (pardon the pun) afoot nowadays.

Games rewards in respect to Pathtags are expensive. Right now, a set of 150 tags (assuming between 100 and 150 people receive a participation reward) is $389AUD to get the tags to me in Australia which makes them $2.60 per tag.

We then have additional costs of:
$0.05 - Envelope
$0.07 - Cardboard stiffener
$0.03 - Snack Bag
$1.10 - Stamp
$0.03 - Paper (including printer costs like drum and toner)
$0.02 - Petrol (depending on how many are dispatched at once, so this is a low average)
--------
$1.30 to ship it to you

$2.60 per tag
$1.30 to ship in Australia
---------
$3.90 per tag shipped to you

$3.90 * 150 tags = $585.00 per game

We don't have that sort of money. Right now we have $2,219 in the bank of which some $1,600 or so will be heading out shortly for domain registration and server hosting leaving $600 in the float to purchase new shop items while we wait for ever decreasing purchases.

Even one game a year of full participation would drain us to $zero and leave us vulnerable to not being able to pay the bills to keep the lights on.

We could sustain a "winner" reward nowadays, but not a full participation reward unless they are paid rewards at cost price or something else to keep that funded.

I'm not complaining here, I'm setting out facts for the discussion.

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oldfella
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Re: Future Games

Post by oldfella » 13 April 22 9:20 am

I do not mind paying for a reward pathtag.

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Just a cacher
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Re: Future Games

Post by Just a cacher » 13 April 22 10:15 am

Most of us really like the idea of a prize, even if it's a participation prize. After all, we are essentially treasure hunters. :-)

Fund raising ideas for pathtags

1. Entry fee for participation in games? Enough to cover pathtags plus a bit for the coffers.

2. Competition to design pathtag, with entry fee?

3. Donation drive before a game?

4. Ask for a sponsor for the next game. Sponsor to put in all or half or a quarter of cost of pathtags, either alone or with other sponsors. In return for publicity if wanted, or a small percentage of the tags for trading or collecting, or just to support GA. I couldn't afford to do that myself too often, but I could pay for one lot of pathtags for one game, and there must be others out there who would be willing to chip in for other games at other times. What's more, I think I'd still feel it was a prize, even if I'd initially paid for them all...

5. I've been mulling this one over for a bit, not sure it's totally related to caching.... Monthly caching photo competition with entry fee. Small prize and announcement for winner each month. After 12 months, make a calendar from winning photos and sell it to members of GA. (I know the lady who gets it all done for the Briard rescue fund raiser and she might be able to point us to the people who print it all up for her.) You'd have to start it at the right time of the year to have it all finish in time to make up a calendar near Christmas for maximum sales and maximum use of a calendar.

Or, of course, Oldfella's suggestion of just paying for a pathtag for a game.

I can see that some of these ideas could present a large administrative headache, like handling lots of small amounts of money and making the books balance, awarding, packaging, and posting pathtags, and that sort of thing. You could delegate one or more tasks, either for a specific game, or in general. These days, with instant communication at our fingertips, it shouldn't be impossible to send a message to whoever, saying, "please post a pathtag to cacher Fred, at this address", or "Fred has paid for his tag, please send it off." I would put my hand up to help out, if wanted.

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caughtatwork
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Re: Future Games

Post by caughtatwork » 13 April 22 1:39 pm

Just a cacher wrote:
13 April 22 10:15 am
Monthly caching photo competition with entry fee. Small prize and announcement for winner each month. After 12 months, make a calendar from winning photos and sell it to members of GA. (I know the lady who gets it all done for the Briard rescue fund raiser and she might be able to point us to the people who print it all up for her.) You'd have to start it at the right time of the year to have it all finish in time to make up a calendar near Christmas for maximum sales and maximum use of a calendar.
Calendars are expensive to produce. Between $15 and $20 for a monthly page calendar (i.e. 12 pages, one per month). We would need to work out how many to buy (the more, the cheaper so going "on demand" is not worth my time) and then sell for a decent profit of 100% markup. I simply cannot see too many people paying $30 to $40 for a calendar. Great idea, but I don't think the cost vs. effort and return is there.

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caughtatwork
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Re: Future Games

Post by caughtatwork » 13 April 22 1:42 pm

oldfella wrote:
13 April 22 9:20 am
I do not mind paying for a reward pathtag.
You are an outlier and if we did that we would need to ask for money up front. As sure as eggs are eggs, when it comes to stumping up the cash after the game, half the people will say "nah, it's OK I don't want one" and of course, we have already bought them.

Then we have the challenge of "we'll I don't like that design so I won't play" or "nah, I don't like pathtags so I won't play" or "this is the same price as in the shop so why am I playing a game for a chance to buy something".

The idea has merit, but I don't see it being a success based on sales and games and behaviour in the past.

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Just a cacher
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Re: Future Games

Post by Just a cacher » 13 April 22 1:54 pm

Calendars are expensive to produce. Between $15 and $20 for a monthly page calendar (i.e. 12 pages, one per month). We would need to work out how many to buy (the more, the cheaper so going "on demand" is not worth my time) and then sell for a decent profit of 100% markup. I simply cannot see too many people paying $30 to $40 for a calendar. Great idea, but I don't think the cost vs. effort and return is there.
Fair enough. I did say I hadn't finished thinking about that one. :D

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