dragonZone

A place to talk about the Geocaching Australia dragonZone and other games
User avatar
caughtatwork
Posts: 16132
Joined: 17 May 04 12:11 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: dragonZone

Post by caughtatwork » 01 May 14 9:30 pm

geo_jas wrote:
caughtatwork wrote:Well, if you'd stop nicking my caches I'd tell you the secret formula :mrgreen:
I left some new ones for you. :D

I can't either use my points to take control of the caches I've just picked up or to find some others that I can control more cheaply. ](*,) I've got a week to think about it.
Thanks for that. I did see the ones you've moved over as well as the ones in Westgate Park. Might have to do some raiding this weekend :-) :griffin

User avatar
Taz
400 or more spectacular views seen
400 or more spectacular views seen
Posts: 178
Joined: 03 June 12 11:09 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: dragonZone

Post by Taz » 01 May 14 10:03 pm

caughtatwork wrote: That may help, even if you can't control the cache, you can move it out of you way.
So does that mean if another clan controls a Moveable cache I can't take control of it by finding it for the first time? That was really my question, control for T caches changes depending on points, are moveables the same?

User avatar
caughtatwork
Posts: 16132
Joined: 17 May 04 12:11 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Re: dragonZone

Post by caughtatwork » 01 May 14 10:39 pm

Taz wrote:
caughtatwork wrote: That may help, even if you can't control the cache, you can move it out of you way.
So does that mean if another clan controls a Moveable cache I can't take control of it by finding it for the first time? That was really my question, control for T caches changes depending on points, are moveables the same?
You may be able to, depending on how many points are already up against the cache. All caches for the game are treated equally.

Say a cache has Griffin with 10 points, Cerberus with 12 points and Minotaur with 8 points. It would be controlled by Cerberus as the clan with the highest points on the cache. Assume the cache is a 1/1 and you find it. Whether you are finding it the first time or not, automatically your clan (I believe you're a Minotaur) allocates 1 point to the cache. Now the cache is Griffin with 10 points, Cerberus with 12 points and Minotaur with 9 points. Cerberus remains in control.

However ... you can allocate additional DZPoints from your bank. As long as you are within 7 days of your find, you can go to your points allocating tool. http://geocaching.com.au/my/dragonzone/allocate You need to match or beat the 12 Cerberus points. So you may decide to allocate an additional 4 points taking Minotaur from 9 to 13 points. As Minotaur now has the most points on the cache, Minotaur will control the cache. Depending on what zone it's in and what other caches are in the same zone, you may take control of the zone.

As an added tactic though, say you DON'T want to allocate any additional points. For whatever reason you're saving your dZPoints for a rainy day. Now the cache is Griffin with 10 points, Cerberus with 12 points and Minotaur with 9 points (remember your clan automatically allocated 1 point). So the status of the cache remains with
Cerberus. That doesn't mean you should despair. If your clan is only 1 cache away from controlling a zone and that stupid Cerberus cache is the deciding cache, move it along to another zone. When it exits the original zone, the zone will recalculate and (hopefully, maybe) your clan will gain control of the zone. Remember though when it enters the new zone the zone will recalculate too, so if you're looking to move a cache out of the way, send it to a zone already controlled by Cerberus OR send it a zone where (say) Griffin has control by 1 cache over Cerberus. By you moving the cache INTO that zone, you'd be annoying Griffin by making them share the zone with Cerberus, leaving the original zone in control of Minotaur.

The tactic is not always about finding and allocating points to control a cache and / or a zone. Sometimes the tactic can be to move caches your clan does not control OUT of your desired zone, leaving your clan with the most controlled caches in that zone and annoying the heck out of the other clans.

User avatar
Taz
400 or more spectacular views seen
400 or more spectacular views seen
Posts: 178
Joined: 03 June 12 11:09 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: dragonZone

Post by Taz » 02 May 14 7:05 am

Right, it all makes a hazy kind of sense now....... Shall go do some scheming :minotaur

nutwood
Posts: 389
Joined: 01 April 11 6:02 pm
Location: Tasmania

Re: dragonZone

Post by nutwood » 18 May 14 7:40 pm

Doesn't seem to be much discussion happening here. Does this mean that all the scheming is happening privately, or are people not exploring the strategy?
It'd be a pity if it were the latter as this is a very well thought out game with some interesting subtleties. I've got a couple of projects coming up that are likely to interfere with my caching opportunities so I thought I'd try to spark up some interest in the discussion of strategy.
I'll throw the subject of hides into the ring. It seems to me that the serious dragon-zoner should think hard before hiding a cache. The critical factor is how many clan members you have in your area who are likely to find your cache, versus how many your opposing clans have. If you are in a minority you should hide easy caches, with very low terrain and difficulty points. If you're in a majority, hide difficult and tricky caches.
Consider Clan A with only four active members who are competing against Clan B with twenty members. If Clan A hide a simple cache (1/1), each of their members can find it and load it up with points. Without any difficulty, they can get thirty plus points on that cache. Obviously, Clan B can still take possession if they work together and allocate points as they find, but it's far more likely they won't talk to each other, won't bother, and will simply log the find at one (1 x 1) point a time. If it were a tricky cache (say 3/3), Clan B would be clocking up nine (3 x 3) points every time they logged and the cache would soon pass out of A's grasp, no matter how hard they fought and how casual B were about the attack. Difficult caches favour majority clans!
Of course, the best cache for a minority clan is the humble moveable, preferably a nano with a difficulty of three or more! A hard working clan of four could bounce a few such moveables about, clocking up points all the time and generally spreading alarm and despondency everywhere they dropped them. :twisted:

User avatar
the Monkey King
50 or more caches found
50 or more caches found
Posts: 134
Joined: 15 January 11 8:45 am
Twitter: The Monkey King @Au
Location: Langwarrin, Victoria
Contact:

Re: dragonZone

Post by the Monkey King » 18 May 14 10:28 pm

nutwood wrote:Doesn't seem to be much discussion happening here. Does this mean that all the scheming is happening privately, or are people not exploring the strategy
I would discuss things more if the other clans didn't get to read my thoughts/ideas. :-#

Tuena
4500 or more caches found
4500 or more caches found
Posts: 523
Joined: 17 November 06 11:38 am

Re: dragonZone

Post by Tuena » 18 May 14 10:30 pm

I'm still coming to terms how it all works as per my recent question about the mechanics of allocating points. If I had a strategy I wouldn't discuss it openly. unFortunately I haven't progressed that far yet.

nutwood
Posts: 389
Joined: 01 April 11 6:02 pm
Location: Tasmania

Re: dragonZone

Post by nutwood » 18 May 14 10:47 pm

the Monkey King wrote:
nutwood wrote:Doesn't seem to be much discussion happening here. Does this mean that all the scheming is happening privately, or are people not exploring the strategy
I would discuss things more if the other clans didn't get to read my thoughts/ideas. :-#
That is a problem. I did float the idea that opposing clan members should immediately suicide if they read anything useful on an opposing clans site but I don't think it's come into general adoption yet. There's just no honour among cachers anymore. :(

User avatar
Taz
400 or more spectacular views seen
400 or more spectacular views seen
Posts: 178
Joined: 03 June 12 11:09 pm
Location: Launceston

Re: dragonZone

Post by Taz » 19 May 14 8:35 am

I don't think my clan is particularly interested, I have tried to spark conversation in our area on several occasions and got no response so meh...... :roll:
Kinda takes the shine off............

User avatar
Zalgariath
5500 or more caches found
5500 or more caches found
Posts: 1749
Joined: 17 August 09 10:44 am
Location: Sydney, NSW

Re: dragonZone

Post by Zalgariath » 19 May 14 10:20 am

Hmmm interesting thought Nutwood. I hadnt thought about the hiding points though as roger has demonstrated skillfully as the hider you can get a BIG start on locals. He claimed a previously well held zone in Mosman by being quite clever...

The zone was green with 4 movables holding the fort. He found and claimed 3 of those, and took one with him. But then he hid a (very good) cache elsewhere in the zone which was a pretty high scoring regular.... and allocated it maximum points. As the hider gets more points than the FTF even with me maxing points allocated on it he keeps control. Clever.

As it is a bit tricky, and turnover on GCA caches is lower, it may be a while until some one can flip it. If he had hidden a 1/1... it would be flipped a LOT more quickly.

nutwood
Posts: 389
Joined: 01 April 11 6:02 pm
Location: Tasmania

Re: dragonZone

Post by nutwood » 19 May 14 1:30 pm

Taz wrote:I don't think my clan is particularly interested, I have tried to spark conversation in our area on several occasions and got no response so meh...... :roll:
Kinda takes the shine off............
Know what you mean. Can only think that the rest of Australia are so used to Green V The Herd battles down here that they don't notice. :?
Never mind, we appreciate your efforts, even if they are misguided! :minotaur :cry: Did you like what I did to that little tile you loaded up with points? :D :phoenix

nutwood
Posts: 389
Joined: 01 April 11 6:02 pm
Location: Tasmania

Re: dragonZone

Post by nutwood » 19 May 14 1:42 pm

Zalgariath wrote:Hmmm interesting thought Nutwood. I hadnt thought about the hiding points though as roger has demonstrated skillfully as the hider you can get a BIG start on locals. He claimed a previously well held zone in Mosman by being quite clever...

The zone was green with 4 movables holding the fort. He found and claimed 3 of those, and took one with him. But then he hid a (very good) cache elsewhere in the zone which was a pretty high scoring regular.... and allocated it maximum points. As the hider gets more points than the FTF even with me maxing points allocated on it he keeps control. Clever.

As it is a bit tricky, and turnover on GCA caches is lower, it may be a while until some one can flip it. If he had hidden a 1/1... it would be flipped a LOT more quickly.
I see what you mean Zalgariath. My hypothesis doesn't factor in the cache being too tricky to find.
In the example you quote, assuming the cache is found, it'll come down to who's got the numbers. If the next finder is Phoenix and they do as you did, the cache will change hands. After that, it'll be whichever clan finds it the most. If that clan is Phoenix, at 6.25 points a find, Phoenix will soon have such a hold that it'll be very difficult and expensive for the opposition to "buy" it back. The cache will become an Phoenix asset.
If it were a 1/1 cache, it'd be much harder for the clan with the most finders to establish such a hold.

User avatar
tronador
4500 or more caches found
4500 or more caches found
Posts: 1542
Joined: 04 November 05 10:18 pm
Location: Lidcombe,Sydney, NSW

Re: dragonZone

Post by tronador » 19 May 14 6:55 pm

This all sounds so tactical. I was just awarding whatever points I had at the time of each find. I guess the find still interests me more.

nutwood
Posts: 389
Joined: 01 April 11 6:02 pm
Location: Tasmania

Re: dragonZone

Post by nutwood » 19 May 14 7:48 pm

tronador wrote:This all sounds so tactical. I was just awarding whatever points I had at the time of each find. I guess the find still interests me more.
It is all tactical. I'm just throwing up the discussion for anyone interested in dissecting the strategy. I intentionally did hiding strategy because discussing finding strategy would be more likely to introduce the problem of spoilers.
In a game like this, you either use tactics or get used by someone else's tactics!

User avatar
Zalgariath
5500 or more caches found
5500 or more caches found
Posts: 1749
Joined: 17 August 09 10:44 am
Location: Sydney, NSW

Re: dragonZone

Post by Zalgariath » 20 May 14 12:01 am

That's one of the things I like about this game. You can get all tactical... or you can ignore it all and just cache. Unlike ingress where if you aren't one of the ocd players there is often little point playing at all, here you can just do what you always did and be part of the game. Having players who have no tactical thinking could be hilarious actually with accidental moves having weird outcomes or frustrating moments when your carefully placed plans are unwittingly undone! Hehe

Post Reply