Glass Half Empty...

Geocaching Australia governance issues
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Bronze
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Glass Half Empty...

Post by Bronze » 03 April 07 11:08 pm

I have been thinking of posting this for a while.

Image

What happens if...

* Geocaching.com dies from bankruptcy, internal argument, legals, server dies etc etc
* National Parks sues .com.au because their bored.
* GCA does actually fold unexpectedly for any or some unknown reason/s.
* add your own doomsday thoughts here...


I know we don't want to think these things let alone have them happen but I feel they need to be discussed so those that have read this thread know what plan 'B' is in any event.

This is a forum. Lets discuss these doomday scenarios that could threaten out sport / hobby / activity.

I would suggest that the forum moderators / management retains the right to delete this thread, edit comments and or veto certain topic areas that may be to sensitive. If in any case you should receive the courtesy of a PM explaining why.

Sharp pencils,

The Bronze.

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Post by Knot_gillty » 03 April 07 11:52 pm

Go back to plan "A" for me. Bought GPS for fishing and havnt been since i "discovered" geocaching. :oops: Scary for me really. But seriously, we could all pool money together, buy victoria (or new south wales for those of us that way inclined) and just keep on bloody well doing it!! :twisted: :D my 2c worth. Happy hunting and dont get lost

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Post by The Spindoctors » 03 April 07 11:54 pm

Here's a more likely one for you. A huge solar flare a la 4 November 2003, but this time it hits the Earth and knocks out all GPS satellites.

For me...well I would still have great places to hike. Could still do geocaching, but it would involve more clues once you get to the site - kind of like Letterboxing.

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riblit
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Post by riblit » 04 April 07 12:03 am

A lot of this was discussed last year. Read the posts in Geocaching Australia Senate for some history.

geocaching was around before gc.com arrived. I don't believe its demise would stop the sport.

The codebase for this site is in the hands of at least 5 different parties so in the unlikely event the gca servers turned to purple smoke the site could be rebuilt.

National Parks would spend all their time trying to find a legal entity to serve with the papers.

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Post by riblit » 04 April 07 12:05 am

Spindoc Bob wrote:Here's a more likely one for you. A huge solar flare a la 4 November 2003, but this time it hits the Earth and knocks out all GPS satellites.

For me...well I would still have great places to hike. Could still do geocaching, but it would involve more clues once you get to the site - kind of like Letterboxing.


You could always take your camera out and post the results in "things photographic" forum

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Post by RedPaw64 » 04 April 07 1:27 am

You know WHATEVER happens HAPPENS!!!! <br>
<br>
What happens if I walk out my front door and get hit by a bus and can't go geocaching.....?

I Know, if a Geocaching site shuts down someone will open another one, the world won't stop<br>
<br>
Also if it comes to the satellites being knocked out, we can all build our own at<br> http://www.thetech.org/exhibits/online/satellite/satbuilder/index.html<br>

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Post by unbreakables » 04 April 07 2:09 am

Man Bronze, you think way too much!!
then put em into post,
I like your througher observations of things, but I struggle to keep up with this forum, (am also on a few total un-related ones)
You should get out more- Ever tried Geo-caching?? :lol:



I have heard it is pretty good fun!!!!
Mabee I don't think enuf!?!?!?!?!? :lol:

Cheers......

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Re: Glass Half Empty...

Post by CraigRat » 04 April 07 6:46 am

Bronze wrote:* Geocaching.com dies from bankruptcy, internal argument, legals, server dies etc etc

Hundreds of thousands of people are mightily pissed off, everyones egg are in one basket there....
Given the data is what groundspeak charges for, it would more than likely held by the receiver as collateral than handed over to the community. This is common for bankrupted IT based companies. That data risks being locked away for ever.

Bronze wrote:* National Parks sues .com.au because their bored.

GCA has a running budget of <$0 AU (technically it runs at a loss)... we'd point em towards a bigger target :lol:

Bronze wrote:* GCA does actually fold unexpectedly for any or some unknown reason/s.

Could happen, data is/would be available to the community to decide what to do with it... not a big problem at all... Impact would be insignificant compared to GC going under...... If more people would get interested in the GCA Senate then a formal handling of this scenario could be formulated.....

Bronze wrote:* add your own doomsday thoughts here...

I know when it will be the end of the world.. It involves at least 4 certain cachers hiding/doing a GCA cache :lol:.......

All the scenarios above are possible.....

The whole trouble with user-generated data on sites (flickr, youtube, GC etc) is the fact that the data GOES if the site folds.... thats one reason why you should never keep all your eggs in one basket.

I can't say what the odds are for any of the above (some would be a lot more likely than others).

My doomsday scenario: S/A gets turned back on during a 'liberation' excercise by the seppos.

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Post by Map Monkey » 04 April 07 7:05 am

What happens if...


* Bronze actually logs another cache find
* Bronze runs out of Teapot images


Doomsday for sure :twisted:

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Post by ideology » 04 April 07 7:47 am

bronze,

surely this is not a glass half empty issue, it's a teacup half empty!

as to whether gc.com asplodes, our plan b is in topic 2: ie building gca

national parks will be more likely to sue i! for landing the i! geocopter in their precious national parks! (for some reason it's okay to drive a hulking big 4wd destroying 100km of track, but it's not okay to pop down the i! geocopter in a car park containing cement mixers and backhoes.) however, should they do so, our plan c is to put george in the dock (walking stick and all) and try to get them to prove that he is somehow destroying national parks

gca might fold unexpectedly for some unknown reason. in that case, plan d is that codebase and the data are held by multiple people (we should probably automate the data side of it, now you raise it). i! has done almost zero development in the last year. we have done a little bit of work on the infrastructure to allow the developers to develop more efficiently, but that's about it!

our personal doomsday scenario is that nobody cares about the governance of the website, the governance changes as we reduce our involvement, and after a few years, the website is so out of touch with the community that it's no longer relevant. we (and you) have repeatedly tried to get discussion going about the governance of the site, but it doesn't seem to generate much discussion.

we've taken the liberty of moving this thread to the gca senate section in an attempt to get a bit of discussion going in that section. if you have any queries about moderation, please refer to the moderator of the senate!

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Post by Bronze » 04 April 07 8:18 am

I have to admit I do think to much but often it for the better.

Nobody like the be cooking marshmellows and have some wanker come and hang a piss in the fire but for much of my security career I walk around shopping centres, race courses and ivory tower saying "What if?".

I'm not a glass half empty type of guy and although personal opinions are important I'm more uninterested in considering and implementing actual back-up plans. The backing up of data, the redirection of visitors to a "This has just happened so you have these choices..." but more importantly correcting anything that could happen before it does.

Yes I know GC was here before GCA but does the users of GC know that GCA is here and if the whole thing did fold how far would the capabilities of GCA be able to handle such traffic. Funding, management etc etc. Just how larger range of data would GCA handle, just Au and NZ of broader.

I'm sure the administrators and honcho have thought this through with a beer of two but I want the layperson geocacher to be aware of life after 404 error.

I agree with i! that there is not enough discussion in the senate and most with quickly read this thread and not move on to a quiz but there really need to be some serious discussion and thought into the future of geocaching. It's like a business and you can't just let it roll along and not think about the growing pains.

Tea-cup half full - None are left like this in my place. Nothing is to important to walk away from tea.

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Post by Bronze » 04 April 07 8:26 am

Map Monkey wrote:What happens if...


* Bronze actually logs another cache find
* Bronze runs out of Teapot images


Doomsday for sure :twisted:


I log caches. I logged one the other day infact. Nothing wrong with saving them up. You know, for a rainy day. We are in drought you know.

Teapot images. There not mine. I loan them.
I wouldn't get that excited about actually photographing teapots, I just use them.

Calms the nerves and steadies the mind.

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Re: Glass Half Empty...

Post by The Garner Family » 04 April 07 10:39 am

CraigRat wrote:
Bronze wrote:* Geocaching.com dies from bankruptcy, internal argument, legals, server dies etc etc

Hundreds of thousands of people are mightily pissed off, everyones egg are in one basket there....


Actually a groundspeak crash & complete loss of data could be easily recovered from. I'm pretty sure that you could reconstruct the data just from people re-uploading the contents of their GSAK databases.

But all of these doomsday scenarios sound like too much to stress over nothing for me... in the highly unlikely event that any of them happen I'll worry about them then... in the meantime I'll worry about more relevant and likely things :-)

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Post by Bronze » 04 April 07 11:07 am

Perhaps your are right but who going to coordinate the uploading of GSAK data then to where? Who has a data base of people with GSAK data emails and at what point will they contact me to provide them that data?

Most people are happy to ride the wave while it lasts and while it free people can do that but I would like people at least thinking of the what ifs. Thats all I'm raising.

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Re: Glass Half Empty...

Post by CraigRat » 04 April 07 11:26 am

The Garner Family wrote:
CraigRat wrote:
Bronze wrote:* Geocaching.com dies from bankruptcy, internal argument, legals, server dies etc etc

Hundreds of thousands of people are mightily pissed off, everyones egg are in one basket there....

Actually a groundspeak crash & complete loss of data could be easily recovered from. I'm pretty sure that you could reconstruct the data just from people re-uploading the contents of their GSAK databases.

The server data bit isn't the concern for GC for me, its the other issues that bind up the data in a legal process....that said I presume with the money they are gettign for trackables & subs that they are in a pretty good financial position.... it'd only be some kind of internal issue that'd cause them to vanish.

All these scenarios don't really matter anyhow, as the dude in Jusrassic Park said 'Nature will find a way' and so will cachers :lol:

What we need is more input on the governance of GCA as that is real, relevant and needs addressing sooner rather than later.

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