Placement of caches

[The Spindoctors]

One of the topics in the ACT section of this forum is branching into a new topic, which I thought would be appropriate for the General Chit-Chat section. This is the what has prompted it:

Just out of curiosity, how many caches should a person find before they can hide their own? Five? Ten? Fifty? If ten, what if you've found eleven 1 star caches, but I've found nine 2 star caches - would I get called out stepping out of line by placing a cache? Should you be able to place a cache with a higher difficulty than the highest you've found? What about terrain? Once you've 'done your time', can you place as many as you like, or should there be an enforced ratio, like 1 cache placed for every 10 found, or 5 stars worth of caches for every 50 found? I've only found 23, and the hardest was Governer's Gold - am I eligible to place a cache, or am I still 'green'?)

As for the 'placing caches for the sake of placing them' charge, I guess some people expect different things from geocaching. Some obviously expect to be amazed and delighted each and every time they find a cache by some wondrous secret, spectacular vista or eyepopping oddity. Some, on the other hand, enjoy the feeling of walking past a public space and knowing something about it that all the muggles milling about don't - the thrill of a secret, even if it's a trivial one.

What are your thoughts? For me, the count is not an issue. If you find one cache and plant one hundred, that's great. My concerns are the quality and position of caches.

1 - For me, the kick would be to have someone find my caches in ten, twenty years from now. I therefore spend a little more time ensuring they are well constructed. I steer away from snap lids, as in Canberra the temperature fluctuations cause that to open (changes in pressure) and moisture leaks in. I prefer screw top lids. I also place them so that they won't be in a pool of water or fall out their hiding spot.

2 - The location. In most cases, I want fellow cachers to find exciting/interesting/unique places, however not every cache layer/finder wants that. That's fine and I agree. I've found many in places that I find boring (some may find where I place them boring). I'm more concerned about how they are hidden. When determining where to place a cache I ask myself the following questions:

* If it is covered, will the covering be moved by geomuggles, geocachers or nature? Leafs, sticks and dirt are therefore out.
* Will it be impossible to find because there are 10 000 000 similar hiding spots?
* Will it be stood on, or easily destroyed by geomuggles and/or geocachers?
* Will that place remain undisturbed for a period of time (ie. at least a year or two)?

If the answer to any of these is yes, I look elsewhere. What's the point of planting something that only a few geocachers will find in the first few weeks of it life.

As I said, it's longevity that counts for me. Onto to you all.

[EcoTeam]

It really doesn't matter how many and what type you've found, if you can place a good cache, then place it.
The "guideline" about doing a few caches first is so that you gain experience and know how to "play the game". The guidelines are there, and encouraged for your own protection. But if you feel confident that you can place a good one, then by all means go for it. If you are a beginner and you put out a top quality cache, you'll be highly commended. But if you stuff it up... well, some pople can end up with bad reputations.

There have been numerous cases here in Sydney of newbies rushing out to plant a cache (even before they have found one), and have completely mucked it up. Using wrong datums, inaccurate coords, choosing a wrong location so it gets trashed or water logged, rating it incorrectly etc. Some of them don't even follow through and maintain or fix the cache.

As for ratings, well, they are very subjective. I've done 1/2 rated caches that took many attempts to find, and I've done 4/5 rated caches that I found easily. So I think there really shouldn't be any guideline against having done certain rated caches to "earn your stripes".

EcoDave

[Mix]

I hid my first after only finding one, but I hid some of my first few together with an experienced cacher. That helps you learn ‘the rules’.

I was a little concerned about this when I first started but I got over it. I was getting a reputation with the Dubbo guys for hiding more than I had found (for a while I had) but in the end we only have four regular teams out here so we all have to hide a few. Plus I like hiding caches more than finding them, so that works out for the other teams.

We have gotten close to saturation (almost) in Dubbo the only places that donÂ’t have caches are little parks of no real interest. This has forced us to go further from town. I think though that each cache in Dubbo serves a purpose, although not all caches would be attractive to all cachers. One or two of my ones have been put out in places that are good for people passing though town for only a few hours, They are 1/1 or 1/2 caches and its not like they are I amazing spots but they are good if you are just passing. Other caches in the area will no doubt only ever be visited by locals and the odd cacher who decides to come out stay a while. What I am getting at is if GC will approve it why should it not be allowed. The thing that will limit peoples hides will be cost. Like I said I have hid a lot, and for my own guide I try to find a few between each hide.

[tolmh]

What kind of screwtop containers do you use, Spindoc Bob?

I enjoy caches that take me someplace I wouldn't normally go, or show me something I wouldn't normally see. It doesn't have to be a particularly spectacular site / sight - just somewhere or something slightly off the beaten track that makes me think 'wow - so that's what's down here' (or even better, 'I had no idea this thing / place existed').

Having said that, even the coolest location can't make up for a poorly placed cache - in plain sight of muggles, or under leaf litter (in the middle of acres of the stuff), surrounded by garbage, placed in a dangerous manner and so on. I guess that's where the art lies - placing the right cache in the right location the right way. It's easier to get one or two out of three.

I think when we get around to placing our first cache we'll plant a dud first, and let it sit for a couple of weeks to see if it gets uncovered / lost / stolen / trashed / wet. It'd be good to get a more experienced cacher to vet it and make suggestions for finetuning before finally seeking approval. I don't know if there'd be somebody willing to give up 'first find' to perform that sort of community service, though

[The Spindoctors]

What type of screwtop cache container do I use? You'll have to check out Dante's Peak (ACT), Pinnacle of Canberra (ACT), 5 to 6 Express (Vic) or Western Sprawl (Vic). The stronger the better, but obviously cost is a factor. I figure $5 for a container that will last is a good investment. Obviously, that will restrict the number of caches, but I hope that they will go the distance. I also use clear see through, sothat any bomb disposal groups (or at least geomuggles) see that the contents aren't a 'device'.

[Bronze]

I'm with Tolmh when it comes to finding caches. The most rewarding caches I have ever found are in historically or geographically significant locations for what ever reason. To name a few - Split Rock, Dam Arthur, Climb to Wheatley's Rock and Hand's On Rock. He he - Lot's of Rocks I noticed!

I never considere there to be any rules to when you could hide caches. I gave special thanks to Steel Rat for checking out the first few caches I hid, which after two and a half yars are still alive and well. There was a brief time (4 months) when I was hiding nappy wipes boxes. These were no good at all and it wasn't till the first couple of cachers came across them that I found out how inappropriate these were. Fortunately these have been replaced or removed.

Caches here in Dubbo - Particulary very difficult ones get recycled because they were only put out for local cachers only. That and the fct waypoints get burnt down or bulldozed for urban development.

Nads and I hid a cache in a brilliant spot last time we were at Monkerai. I have choosen not to post it yet until it been checkedafter another month or two. It it's in good health then we'll post it for FTF. It will be quite difficult with a very worthwhile location but when it was hidden there were hippies nearby and we are not sure if they might have gone to see what we were doing.

I'm also quite conscious of Bomb Disposal teams. Being way out beyond I would expect a bomb disposal team to be a tad pissed off if they drove to Dubbo to find there bomb was a Bronze cache. For this reason I make sure they are clearly stenciled and marked with geocaching.com. Hopefully common sence will prevail if discovered by the muggles.

Our Latest hide is "Buckleys". It was purely for the Faint of Brain. It is a very hard cache expected to take most of a weekend to recover and play on peoples frustrations. Fortunately its saving grace take in some beautiful vews and there are a couple of traditionals along the way. We poured over topo's and plotted for literally a month of weekends before we even thought about starting to place it.

My next hide will be the exact opposite. Dubbo easiest 1/1 for the Faint of Brain Muggle. It will be titled - "Just Follow The Arrow" and will have explicit instructions on how to cache right down to what to wear and setting your GPSr to Degrees, minutes, decimals in the settings menu.

I enjoy hiding caches but when the mood takes me I really enjoy finding them also. I'm not out for the count - the harder the more rewarding!

[Quasar]

I think caches do need to be placed for a reason. It would be possible to plant a cache in just about any street or park, but they should have a theme, or a reason for being there. I think cache size is an important thing too. Ideally I plant the largest cache I think is appropriate for the environment. Obviously in heavily trafficked areas they will be smaller, but if you have to walk a long way or endure difficult terrain to find a cache, you want it to be a decent size.
<p>
As for placement - well I seem to have more trouble actually finding caches than others. I think the key is that they shouldn't be completely obscured, so that when you look in the correct spot, you should see a bit of the cache showing. The trick here is to plant it in a spot that non-cachers would never look. The exception here would be when it's in a heavily trafficked area and needs to be completely hidden. Then the planting location should be quite obvious, though it might be hard to get to.

[tolmh]

What type of screwtop cache container do I use? You'll have to check out Dante's Peak (ACT)...

<p>

Fine - I did. Happy now? <p>

If anybody wants to see what the cache container looks like, check out the log for our visit here.

[The Spindoctors]

That's great Tolmh! I couldn't work out what your description in my email was on about, until I looked on the web. It works better than I thought.

[alex]

Back when geocaching was new we were all forced to hide caches before we found any, we were also in the fortunate position that no one knew then what was a lame cache so there was no criticism of our early efforts.
Now, with a wealth of experience hiding and finding, I see some newbie placements as fairly ordinary but I remind myself that we all must start somewhere. I would prefer a new player to place a sub-standard cache than wait till they "know it all" and not place at all.

Of course, the best location is the one with the great view, significant history, spectacular wildflowers, safe for children, challenging difficulty, easy to find, etc, etc,.....