Geocaching One Day Record Guidelines

[Facitman]

This discussion was started in another thread...
http://forum.geocaching.com.au/viewtopi ... 1&start=61

I'd like to see a set of community agreed standards for what is required for a caching record.

Things like, all members in the vehicle must not have found the cache before, multi legs must not be prefound, members of the team can only be searching one cache at a time.

I don't think you should start searching before the start time - if you have FOUND the cache before time starts, that is, you can see it, then it probably shouldn't count.

Maybe I should start a wiki page and see where it takes itself?

Current draft of a set of guidelines for claiming a "most finds in a day" record are on the Wiki here with input from a few people so far.

All input welcome, including "It's not about the numbers" comments . Add your opinions here in the thread or update the Wiki, if you have access. Please be respectful of others views and don't simply change the Wiki because you don't like it. We are looking for a community view

Peter

[CraigRat]

haha, looks like some contention with the rules already...this ones gonna be fun to look at the history...........

[rhinogeo]

<p>It's interesting to see how the <i>draft guidelines</i> have been modified so far (with previous comments just deleted )</p>
<p>I have some problems with the current version of the guidleines (as at 1415 16/10/06)</p>

• 1. # A record must occur in a single 24 hour period

<b>Midnight to Midnight has been the convention so far, why should this be changed?</b>

• 2. All cache types can be included in the attempt

<b>Non-physical caches (virtual, webcam, etc) may well be valid caches, but for the purpose of a 'record' and in order to level the playing field as far as is possible, only physical boxes with logbooks should count</b>

• 4. At least one particular member of The Team must visit every cache

<b>All members of <i>The Team</i> should be present at every find, and every log. <i> If you want to talk the talk, you've gotta walk the walk</i></b>

• 9. For physical caches, The Team must sign the logbook, a stamp or sticker can be used

<b>Further to this each log (online and in the logbook) should contain the date, time, and find number for the day</b><p>YMMV </p>

[crew 153]

If more than 1 "cacher" in a team wished to log an online entry for the find they must individually sign the log.

[The Garner Family]

<p>It's interesting to see how the <i>draft guidelines</i> have been modified so far </p>

<p>
Yes, maybe we can use the discussion page of the wiki to nut it out. I made the changes because the initial page was put up as a 'draft' and input welcomed. That's what a wiki is about. I think once the page has been established it would be rude of someone to just introduce a new rule without discussion, but for now we should be thrashing it out.
<p>

• 1. # A record must occur in a single 24 hour period

<b>Midnight to Midnight has been the convention so far, why should this be changed?</b>

<p>
I agree, it should be midnight to midnight.
<p>

• 4. At least one particular member of The Team must visit every cache

<b>All members of <i>The Team</i> should be present at every find, and every log. <i> If you want to talk the talk, you've gotta walk the walk</i></b>

<p>
So does this mean that my kids can't start the day with me. Does this mean that if my wife comes but decide not to climb up the hill on one of the hard ones that I didn't set the record? It should only matter that one single person found every one of the caches... whoever else tags along for any or all of the finds makes no material difference to it.

[rhinogeo]

So does this mean that my kids can't start the day with me.

Only if they are prepared to attend every find and be present at every log

Does this mean that if my wife comes but decide not to climb up the hill on one of the hard ones that I didn't set the record?

No, just that that cache doesn't count towards the record because all team members were not present at the find

It should only matter that one single person found every one of the caches... whoever else tags along for any or all of the finds makes no material difference to it.

Setting records isn't meant to be easy. Having others 'tag along' for the ride and offer assistance or companionship on some caches, but not all, is akin to having a support crew. Not on, IMHO

[The Garner Family]

Setting records isn't meant to be easy. Having others 'tag along' for the ride and offer assistance or companionship on some caches, but not all, is akin to having a support crew. Not on, IMHO

I don't think that that accurately represents the number of caches completed. If, say, on one of the days that you and facitman set a record, that if you found an extra cache on the way home that he didn't find... I'd like to know that you found one more on that day & that the record did include that additional cache. i.e. I think we'd want to count all the caches that you did on that day, not just those that were done with a particular set of individuals present.

I would, however, not want to count some caches that my wife completed wihtout me & some caches that I completed without her - this, I think all would agree, would not count towards a record attempt.

[Map Monkey]

Setting records isn't meant to be easy. Having others 'tag along' for the ride and offer assistance or companionship on some caches, but not all, is akin to having a support crew. Not on, IMHO

Excellent, i must hold the Australian record at about 10 caches in a day by myself

Most attempts so far have had some form of "support crew" including your 2 attempts with the company of facitman. If we were to go down this road of no support, then the fact that two or more experienced cachers are caching together for some record, then that should be equally disqualified on the same grounds. We all know professional athletes need a huge support crew at an international meet....why should this be any different

Too much semantics for my liking in this case.....if i go for a record carrying my 2YO, then drop him off later with my wife so as to continue the hunt, why should this be ineligible? I agree with TGF reasonings in this case.....so long as there is only one caching account involved in the record, then it should be fine. If that account is a team of cachers (each with their own account) then it should not be allowed, or alternatively be allowed to claim a team record. If the team splits up to gain advantage then again, no. simple?

mm

[rhinogeo]

I don't think that that accurately represents the number of caches completed. If, say, on one of the days that you and facitman set a record, that if you found an extra cache on the way home that he didn't find... I'd like to know that you found one more on that day & that the record did include that additional cache. i.e. I think we'd want to count all the caches that you did on that day, not just those that were done with a particular set of individuals present.

Actually, on the way home from the Spring Caching Carnival, Facitman found a cache, Burwood after Dark, that I had already found , but as it had passed midnight it was logged on the 31st of October

[Facitman]

Hmmm maybe I should have gone with my first instinct and that coming to an agreement on a set of guidelines would be impossible

What Rhinogeo and I are trying to avoid (I think) is for an individual to pack a car with mates. One drives, one manages the clues, one provides navigation, one writes the notes. The finder jumps out of the car and finds the box.

Rightly or wrongly I think completing a record using the above scenario is not in the spirit of a record attempt, IMHO of course.

If you have found the most caches in a day "single handed" then I would celebrate your achievement, for I *do* think that is an effort worth acknowledging (I think 10 caches maybe a bit short of the record for a solo cacher ).
I would be happy for Rhinogeo and I to be recognised as "Most cacahes in a day for a team of two", if indeed that is what we achieved. (I have no idea BTW)

The development of guidelines is, for me, more about transparency as it is about "Who found the most". I'm very happy that on the most recent record days the cachers involved were more than happy to share with the community what and how they did it. I could then look on their efforts and go Wow, they did xxxx caches using yyyy "rules" I'm impressed

And, if Rhinogeo had found an additional cache on the way home (hard as it was midnight when we finished) I would have punched him in the nose!

Another few cents, eventually I might contribute a dollar

Peter

[TeamTandoori]

So I can get 50 of my old SAS mates to all make a new team up and then get our team to cache over 4 differant states find 4 caches each and will we then hold the record ??? lol
what ever your like for caching is lets all just enjoy it !

[rhinogeo]

Most attempts so far have had some form of "support crew" including your 2 attempts with the company of facitman. If we were to go down this road of no support, then the fact that two or more experienced cachers are caching together for some record, then that should be equally disqualified on the same grounds. We all know professional athletes need a huge support crew at an international meet....why should this be any different

What's a <i>support crew</i>? I see at as having people with you who do not attend each cache find, nor each log, but are with you to drive, feed, water, navigate, or otherwise assist you without directly finding the caches. <i>Tour guides</i> and <i>designated drivers</i> are caught in the same net

Too much semantics for my liking in this case.....if i go for a record carrying my 2YO, then drop him off later with my wife so as to continue the hunt, why should this be ineligible?

I don't think it would be. A 2YO would probably more of a hindrance than a help so perhaps you could get awarded bonus finds for the period he was with you

[stickler]

Cannot help but buy into this one.

Simply stated, there are NO claimed records for any number of caches in any State, because there is no level playing field that people abide by and there are scant rules that no-one heeds.

What stops me employing 6 (or say 36) people, who drive the bus, boat or chopper, another team that navigates, another who feeds me and another who keeps me awake, and all the others show me where the cache is?

I then log them all! But did I do the hard yards....NO.

There are only personnal records, enjoyment and self satisfaction in caching for a job well done.

Recognised records are achieved only by following strict rules, which can be fully auditable by an independent authority to verify the claim.

So at the end of the day regarding claimed records...it seems to be all about 'yours is bigger than mine'.

Lets drop the numbers game and talk about the adventures people had in getting there with their friends and family.

[TeamTandoori]

Cannot help but buy into this one.

Simply stated, there are NO claimed records for any number of caches in any State, because there is no level playing field that people abide by and there are scant rules that no-one heeds.

What stops me employing 6 (or say 36) people, who drive the bus, boat or chopper, another team that navigates, another who feeds me and another who keeps me awake, and all the others show me where the cache is?

I then log them all! But did I do the hard yards....NO.

There are only personnal records, enjoyment and self satisfaction in caching for a job well done.

Recognised records are achieved only by following strict rules, which can be fully auditable by an independent authority to verify the claim.

So at the end of the day regarding claimed records...it seems to be all about 'yours is bigger than mine'.

Lets drop the numbers game and talk about the adventures people had in getting there with their friends and family.

Well said ,thats sums it all up .

[Facitman]

I found a few more cents down the back of the couch.

The intent of the "all team members must be present at the cache" guideline is, to me, to avoid a relay effect. If I'm going for a record then it's about how many I find. If Rhinogeo and I are going for the record then it's about how many we find together, we both should be at the cache.

If a team is doing it and at each cache a different team member gets out of the car to find it then that impacts the physical effort by each. The reality of finding heaps in a day is fatigue. Rotation of members help and I think should be avoided.

If more than 1 "cacher" in a team wished to log an online entry for the find they must individually sign the log.

Would a stamp or sticker with all team members cacher names be acceptable?

PS. Just to be sure, I'm not upset that my original draft guidelines have been changed, but I would like to see some discussion and consensus before things are removed.