The ethics of geocaching in convoy*

[Bunya]

*also known as mass assault, etc – several caching groups in separate vehicles heading to/from the same place on a trip of one or more days.

I remember being very surprised when I first read a ‘found itÂ’ log which said something like “The others in the convoy were still there when we arrived and handed over the log book for me to signÂâ€

[Mix]

I have no problem with two or more otherwise separate ‘teams’ joining up to hunt when the reason for joining up together is to enjoy each others company while enjoying a common interest. A ‘cache machine’ or teaming up just to boost numbers is a bit rich but to each thier own. I would never want to hunt with more than three teams or 6ish people, whichever is smaller. If I group hunt it’s about the social side and I prefer to socialize in a small crowd.

If a puzzle was involved then all should contribute to solving it or solve it themself . I once solved a puzzle and then waited a week for another team to solve it so we could go out together rather than just let them come alone for the ride and claim a find.

[The Garner Family]

It's a tricky question. How many makes a convoy? When you and another cacher are out for a days caching do you both have to find it, or can you work as a team? Does someone close their eyes if the other cacher finds it?

Personally I think its up to the cache owner to decide. If I was the owner of a difficult puzzle cache that I saw one of these 'convoy' logs on... I would likely delete the offending log entry. That, after all, is the responsibility of the cache owner.

I'm not sure that I'd be deleting logs just because someone turned up in a group of a dozen people though.

I guess you've also got to look at the intention of a cache - if its up the top of the mountain then the 'hard' part is climbing the mountain... if someone else in the group finds the cache I don't know that it actually matters in that case.

[Geof]

Seems like the done thing for some.

I think there is more satisfaction to be had if you find the cach yourself without help lines etc .

If in a group I always try to insist the person who found it puts it back as handing it on, I suspect, may introduce 'cache creep'.

[Magpie]

I would have thought that if you teamed up with another geocacher or more than one, the person to find the cache claims the log and the others miss out on logging it and cannot do it again in the future. However, I've come to realise that is not the way it is done. So i guess it's up to the individual, like so much of geocahing

[Richary]

I remember when first introduced to caching I was in the company of 2 other teams. Then I went out with them the following weekend and found a few more (the ones they already had they let me do the work on). So taken to it's ultimate it would mean we can't introduce muggles to the sport and let them claim the find - as the first couple they are likely to need help on.

I have since been out with 1 or 2 teams at times and don't have a problem with it. I figure that if we are working as a team we would probably have found it eventually as individuals. Most of my combined trips have been for country finds though and it is often nicer to travel in convoy, or share a car and petrol.

The recent expedition that would have sparked the debate was more I think to combine a group of like minded individuals (cachers) who also like camping with a bit of light 4WDing thrown in. And perhaps at the same time give some people who wouldn't have had the confidence to head to the area and drive it solo the chance to do so. I didn't go, mainly as I had other commitments but have also found a lot of the caches they would have been targetting.

I think each to their own, and unless the cache owner makes it a requirement on the cache page that it can only be found by one team at a time, what is the problem? Or does it come down to jealousy about the numbers game once again - they didn't have to find each one by themselves therefore cheated. For a sport with few rules it seems a lot of people out there (and I'm not pointing any fingers at any of the posters here) seem to think the game should only be played their way.

I enjoy milestones, but don't really care if someone beats me to a particular one. Am I handicapped by caching solo for most of my time? Probably, compared to having a regular team of 3-4 people that always go out. But doesn't that increase the chances of a "find" as well?

[Freddo]

Not sure about the ethics of gang caching a puzzle cache. It is really up to those involved.

For me one of the highlights of the weekend was sitting at The Skull with the cache open waiting for the others to turn up. Then hearing voices and realising they were all taking the 15 star terrain route from Start or Finish.

Did they all log the cache? You betcha.

[ZED!]

Remember a thread about this time last year, a saying like huckle buckle thingomybob? The concept behind that is, if you're hunting with other teams and find the cache you leave it insitu and stand aside until all teams have found it.

I've done it once (without the stupid saying) but I find most other times I hear a call of 'found it' and the other team has the cache in their hands. Doesn't worry me, my name's in the book, therefore I consider it a find.

Although once with suedenharr, I was slow leaving the car because I was scavenging for the camera as the cache was hidden at a viewing platform overlooking the Glenelg R. I walked up and found the container hidden under Den's shirt, the "I'm innocent" look gave him away.

[Cached]

I believe I was in the convoy that is in question.

There are a few things to be taken into account.

* This was not a "cache machine" - we were on a 500km+ journey to remote South Australia.

* Nobody had (to my knowledge) found the cache before

* The cache is in a remote area, unlikely to be visited again by many of us - I've never been there before, and likely never will again.

* The puzzle is clever, but not particularly difficult, for those who hadn't worked it out, it was able to be done on the fly on the way.

* The convoy stays together - saves people getting lost and reduces accidents - if somebody hadn't solved it (and who am I to say they hadn't??) are you saying they should have stayed in the car and not signed the book?

* Ask anybody who found the cache how you solve the puzzle and they will be able to explain it to you.

If this was discussing 8 or 9 vehicles driving around Adelaide knocking of every 'colour' under the sun, riding on the back of one mans work for the sake of numbers, I'd be agreeing with you in the ethics department.

But this was remote SA (for us city dwellers anyway) and the cache was on the way and there to be found. And we found it - fair and square.

There is quite a difference between a "convoy" and a mass assault or a cache machine. This was no pre-found guided tour.

[juzmac]

I've found quite a few caches via the 'convoy' on many GC events that I have been able to attend such as DJs High Country events, the VIC end of year get together (2005), Biggles Bear's 21 Again, etc...

I have also found them in smaller self made convoys when we have been out 4wding in nearby and not so nearby state parks...

Isn't the whole idea of caching in general to visit places you would not normally visit and to enjoy the area, the GC and greater community and obviously to just have fun...

As long as the cache hiding spot isn't being made obvious by the number of people going there (ie be careful with the environment) and that the logs show respect (ie don't give it away) there shouldn't be any major issues - my 2c worth anyway.....

Cheers
Justin

[Team Piggy]

Easy fix: Find it but don't log it

[Burning Possum]

having only participated in a few group caching escapades my philosophy has been for everyone in the team to guess where they think the cache is once we reach GZ, extra smilies are given to the person or persons who guessed right, but we all still claim a find as technically we all helped in the search.

[Bunya]

Thanks to all who responded to my original posting – what a diverse collection we are!!

If a puzzle was involved then all should contribute to solving it or solve it themself . I once solved a puzzle and then waited a week for another team to solve it so we could go out together rather than just let them come alone for the ride and claim a find.

Onya Mix!

Personally I think its up to the cache owner to decide. If I was the owner of a difficult puzzle cache that I saw one of these 'convoy' logs on... I would likely delete the offending log entry. That, after all, is the responsibility of the cache owner.
I'm not sure that I'd be deleting logs just because someone turned up in a group of a dozen people though.

I would never go so far as deleting a find log on one of my caches, no matter what I thought of the validity of the ‘find’.
IÂ’m not sure that I see it as “the responsibility of the cache ownerÂâ€

[The Garner Family]

[quote="Bunya"]I would never go so far as deleting a find log on one of my caches, no matter what I thought of the validity of the ‘find’.
IÂ’m not sure that I see it as “the responsibility of the cache ownerÂâ€