Hawmorfords get new Australian record

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The Garner Family
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Post by The Garner Family » 18 September 06 10:29 am

In cache-dense areas, 1 cache every 10 minutes is not a difficult task... there are many areas where you can do far more than that *on average* over an extended period of time. Especially if you've pre-planned to only do simple caches.

I'd agree that every cache should be found to get a find, but I think if you actually found the velcro dots that the cache *used* to be attached to then this is far more difficult than actually finding the cache itself.

As for having a tour-guide... I don't see anything wrong with this provided the tour guide isn't finding the caches for you & The Hawmorfords expressed to me before they set out on this venture that they wanted to find every cache themselves & not have dak show them where any were. I've found both dak and the hawmorfords to be people of integrity and I don't believe for a minute that they would have had dak finding the caches for them.

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Post by djcache » 18 September 06 11:14 am

September 16 by HawMorFords (941 found)
#7 of 101 finds for the day in the company of Dak's Emu Mob.
Having talked about Lois Lane's Boyfriend and the Man Of Steel on the way to the cache, we new exactly what to expect but unfortunately, when we arrived, he was nowhere to be seen.

We found the cache attachment method so we quickly rigged up a new micro (after discarding some pesky, white, thoroughly Qld. mints) and logbook.

Dak will return to complete the replacement.

Thanks Dak!
I'm sorry but if that is a cache find I quit.

It's a DNF log Request for owner maintenance - in this case the owner was there. But you can't log a find on a a cache you didn't find!

If I logged every DNF I've ever thought that I found the hiding spot and that had been muggled my numbers would be higher too. I'd also have been wrong a few times.

There's a reason why if you look at the stats graph that so many people have found 30-70 caches a day. To beat that by 40 caches isn't unlike chinese swimmers winning gold medals in quantities at the Olympics only 4 years after having been under achievers. People are inevitably going to question it. I'm not the only one. Just the only one to have posted here so far.

It is reasonable to question that which seems dubious.

I've met DAK on a few occasions and think he's a lovely bloke, I even loaned him my GPS on the first occasion I met him without a second thought. I have no problem with him. I hope he's still coming to my next event for a day trip.

I do have an issue however with a cacher making a so called record attempt and claiming finds that were not achieved.

If DAK sat back and watched with amusement as all caches were legitimately searched for it's an admirable tally of 100 as long as there are no other dubious finds in there.

DJ

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Post by rhinogeo » 18 September 06 12:32 pm

The Garner Family wrote:In cache-dense areas, 1 cache every 10 minutes is not a difficult task... there are many areas where you can do far more than that *on average* over an extended period of time. Especially if you've pre-planned to only do simple caches.
<p>In agree that in extremely cache dense areas it is possible to find a lot very quickly (Facitman and I found 8 in our first hour, but oly 3 in our second hour in Feb 2005) but it would be very difficult to sustain that high a rate all day</p><p>All the logs are not up yet, but unfortunately the logs that are up do not contain a time of find so we are left unaware of how long they were going for, what time the finds occurred, the number of DNFs, or the rate-of-finds</p><p> DJ's calulation of a find every 14 minutes 20 seconds is based on them caching for 24 hours, if they actually were out there for a more realistic 18 hours, that rate of finding goes up to a find every 10 minutes and 41 seconds or 5.61 an hour :shock:</p><p>Having achieved rates of 2.4 and 3.2 an hour over 18 hours with Facitman on our two big days out, I'm staggered at such a find rate :? </p>

The Garner Family wrote:As for having a tour-guide... I don't see anything wrong with this provided the tour guide isn't finding the caches for you & The Hawmorfords expressed to me before they set out on this venture that they wanted to find every cache themselves & not have dak show them where any were. I've found both dak and the hawmorfords to be people of integrity and I don't believe for a minute that they would have had dak finding the caches for them.
<p>Further to DJ's comments, blowing the previous record away by such a large margin automatically raises some eyebrows about how it was done. The presence of a local 'tour guide' unfortunately adds to the perception that they had extensive help (whether they did or not). Logging a find on a cache that isn't there doesn't help allay negative speculation either</p><p>Geocaching is an activity without <i>rules</i> per se, so within the <i>guidelines</i> players/participants are able to play the game however they want. You play the game your way, I'll play it my way :)</p><p>For some, it's <i>all about the numbers :roll: </i>

The Garner Family
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Post by The Garner Family » 18 September 06 1:41 pm

djcache wrote:If I logged every DNF I've ever thought that I found the hiding spot and that had been muggled my numbers would be higher too. I'd also have been wrong a few times.
I wasn't there, so I can only guess at what happened, but if you found the velcro dots and said to the owner (who happened to be there) "Is this where its supposed to be, I can only find two velcro dots", and the owner verified the location, then I don't see the problem with that - it wasn't that they 'thought' they'd find the hiding spot, it could have been that they actually DID find the hiding spot. The fact that they took the time (and had with them) the equipment to put a replacement cache in the same spot shows that it wasn't 'just about the numbers', otherwise they would've been back into the car and onto the next one as quick as they could.

What's sad is that hawmorfords and dak spent quite some time planning a good, fun day of caching & then after achieving their goal & feeling really excited about what they achieved, they're made to feel like criminals after people immediately jump to attack their credibility. (I don't know that they feel this way, I'm only imagining that I would if these things were being said about me).

If anyone wants to attempt to break this record in Brisbane, let me know... if you've never done any caches here before I reckon I could do the driving for you & you'd have a good shot at getting over 100 for the day.

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djcache
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Post by djcache » 18 September 06 2:21 pm

The Garner Family wrote:What's sad is that hawmorfords and dak spent quite some time planning a good, fun day of caching & then after achieving their goal & feeling really excited about what they achieved, they're made to feel like criminals after people immediately jump to attack their credibility. (I don't know that they feel this way, I'm only imagining that I would if these things were being said about me).
It was The Garner Family that put the Australian Record Attempt tag on it.

If it was in fact just a good fund day of caching with no such connotations attached to it then it doesn't make much difference except that a find was logged that was invalid.

If it was a record attempt then scrutiny would and should be expected.

I don't want this thread to turn into a flame war and I don't really want it to continue as one, but if people want to continue to attempt these sorts of records expect scrutiny, particularly as there are always going to be future contenders and past record holders who are watching very closely.

Personally I reckon that the numbers game side of it is ruining caching but I can see the attraction of it for some.

DJ

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Post by binns1012 » 18 September 06 3:46 pm

I can see why Dac got sick of this forum and no longer post here

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Post by Map Monkey » 18 September 06 4:52 pm

binns1012 wrote:I can see why Dac got sick of this forum and no longer post here
Actually he stated on this very forum other reasons than what you have eluded to :roll: :lol: No need to bring this up again.

I will say that HMF had a very busy day and deserve a friendly pat on the back/s.

mm

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Post by caughtatwork » 18 September 06 9:43 pm

:roll: What happened to playing nicely kids? :roll:

Congratulations HawMorFords. That's a mighty, mighty effort.
Well done and kudos to you.

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TeamAstro
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Post by TeamAstro » 18 September 06 10:58 pm

IS it possible they had 2 or 3 cars with 3 GSPr's. Now that's a team effort.

My best is 17 in one day - and that was a huge day for me (just last week).

I'll wait for their post to explain the logistics. That would be interesting.

Well done guys.

Clear skies, Astro.

The Garner Family
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Post by The Garner Family » 18 September 06 11:14 pm

TeamAstro wrote:IS it possible they had 2 or 3 cars with 3 GSPr's.
They didn't. 1 car with dak driving + 2 geocachers, i.e. Mr & Mrs Hawmorford. I expect (only because I know their caching equipment, not because I know for sure) Mr & Mrs Hawmorford would have had a GPS each, 1 Garmin + 1 Magellan, both with electronic compasses.

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Post by team_diesel » 19 September 06 12:47 pm

100 cache finds in less than 18 hours is a spectacular effort.

Congratulations.

There is no doubt that having a local driver would help but it is still a huge day out.

I know that the two times we have tried for a big number in a day (41 & 44) we have been exhusted by the end.

One of the chalenges to making a big day attempt in your home city is by the time you think you are ready to try you have already done lots of caches and locating an area where the unfound cache density is high enough becomes difficult.

The choice of where to look can be critical. We made a bad call on one of our attempts by heading into the city fringe on a Saturday morning and got caught up in the morning crush.

We have also been hampered by heading over into the western suburbs where the caches are of good quality but, like most things out west, are a fair way apart.

Jumping head first into a city full of unfound caches sounds like a great way to spend a day.

Perhaps we need to take up The Garner Family offer and plan an assult on Brisbane.

Would be fun!

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Post by Zytheran » 19 September 06 9:23 pm

The Garner Family wrote:
TeamAstro wrote:IS it possible they had 2 or 3 cars with 3 GSPr's.
They didn't. 1 car with dak driving + 2 geocachers, i.e. Mr & Mrs Hawmorford. I expect (only because I know their caching equipment, not because I know for sure) Mr & Mrs Hawmorford would have had a GPS each, 1 Garmin + 1 Magellan, both with electronic compasses.
OM Freakin G
This means dak drove for 18 hours in suburban Melbourne :?: :shock:
Are they certified insane? I thought the find count was pretty good but think of the poor driver..stop...start...stop...start.. arghhhhh?
Driving in suburbia for 18 hours while others do the caching.
Talk about died and gone the Hell. :lol:

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Post by HawMorFords » 19 September 06 10:09 pm

To those of you who have offered your sincere congratulations, THANK YOU!

To the rest, after having a fantastic and truly memorable day in the beautiful city of Melbourne, it was very disappointing indeed to arrive home to find we have been accused of cheating.

However we are determined not to let this dent our enthusiasm for what we enjoy.

For the record, let us state publiclyÂ…..

Saturday the 15th was an incredible day for us. We had more fun and laughs than we could have hoped for even in our wildest of dreams!

We do GeoCaching our way and we have fun doing itÂ… on some occasions, we climb mountains and manage one find in a day. On other occasions, we go like the clappers and enjoy the numbers.

Frankly, it gets more than a little tiresome listening to people preaching that caching should be done THEIR way.

We donÂ’t impose our rules or thoughts on anyone else and all we ask is the same courtesy in return.

And finallyÂ…..

If there is anyone that is of a like mind and would like to consider the fair city of Brisbane for the location of your personal challenge, please drop us a line and weÂ’ll be happy to help.

Cheers.

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Richary
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Post by Richary » 19 September 06 10:51 pm

I think it was a pretty amazing effort guys. I was a bit surprised at how negative some of the tone got on these messages so I stayed clear.

I don't think I would ever have the stamina to attempt 100 (or even 50) in a day. I did 25 over 300km the other weekend thanks to a lot placed after an event and that was quite enough. I could probably hit Melbourne or Sydney and nab a bagful in one go but I'm not quite that focussed on it!

On the other hand, I do prefer to stop and look at the scenery etc as well as finding the box. Horses for courses of course, and good on you for doing it your way.

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Post by THENANKS » 19 September 06 11:17 pm

:D Well done again. We obviously were not present on the record breaking day so we wont make any comments other than , you wouldn't meet a nicer family, who obviously have a fat time caching together. We would also say that both Peter and Denise are genuinely down to earth great people who are fantastic role models for their kids. If our mob turn out to be as terrific as the Hawmorfords are ,then we will have accomplished what all parents set out to do. ( by the way, we think ours are doing very well ) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but remember, everyone gets something a bit different out of geocaching, but that doesn't make it wrong. Happy Tupperware(systema ,ammo box, film cannister, etc )hunting- Cheers The Nanks

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