Bill before the South Carolina Senate

teamkittens · Post by **teamkittens** » 10 May 05 11:55 am

The Garner Family · Post by **The Garner Family** » 10 May 05 11:59 am

TO AMEND THE CODE OF LAWS OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1976, BY ADDING SECTION 16-17-605 SO AS TO DEFINE THE TERMS "GEOCACHE", "GEOCACHING", AND "LETTERBOXING", TO PROVIDE THAT IT IS UNLAWFUL TO ENGAGE IN GEOCACHING OR LETTERBOXING IN CEMETERIES, ARCHEOLOGICAL SITES, OR ON THE HISTORIC PROPERTIES OF THE STATE, AND TO PROVIDE A PENALTY.

Seems reasonable to me. It's interesting to see that geocaching has reached this high a profile.

Cached · Post by **Cached** » 10 May 05 1:24 pm

Not reasonable at all - they are making it illegal to take a point in any historical area.

Towns can be (and are in SC) historical areas.

Very long, but interesting forum on GC.com

Big Red Expeditions · Post by **Big Red Expeditions** » 10 May 05 1:39 pm

On the Historic Proprties, yes. But there's nothing saying it can't be just outside said historic property. I don't think it will get up anyway. The definition of 'geocacher' is too precise, and as such there's a million ways around it. Remembering that Jeremy owns 'geocaching' that says to me that a geocacher is simply a person participating in his game from his website. So, if geocachers are out, does that mean that 'navicachers(ing)' or 'terracachers(ing)' is still in? You see my point. Their legislation drafters would never allow such flawed legislation to pass as it is. If they were really serious about it, which they're probably not, they would make the offence something like 'hiding an object on private or gov't property' or 'inciting people to enter private or gov't property for a purpose other than which the owner intends or approves' or something like that. There's 2c worth of my legal opinion.

The Garner Family · Post by **The Garner Family** » 10 May 05 1:40 pm

It won't prevent anyone from having a point of a geocache in a cemetry etc, i.e. finding information on a grave or the like.

The Garner Family · Post by **The Garner Family** » 10 May 05 1:42 pm

Big Red Expeditions wrote: The definition of 'geocacher' is too precise, and as such there's a million ways around it. Remembering that Jeremy owns 'geocaching' that says to me that a geocacher is simply a person participating in his game from his website. So, if geocachers are out, does that mean that 'navicachers(ing)' or 'terracachers(ing)' is still in?

Wouldn't their definition cover navicaching and terracaching?

(1) 'Geocache' means the container that serves the purpose of providing a place to store small items or logbooks which are intentionally placed by their owners.

(2) 'Geocaching' means the activity of participants using a global positioning system (GPS) device to locate the geocache or another specific location.

Then again these definitions cover a lot of lawful activities as well... hmmm...???

Doc71 · Post by **Doc71** » 10 May 05 1:46 pm

Laws like that can as you say be navigated around by interpretation alone and would not be much trouble...particularly in aus, as we are not as terror phobic as US legislaters

Big Red Expeditions · Post by **Big Red Expeditions** » 10 May 05 1:52 pm

What legislation drafters usually try to do, rather than banning the entire activity, they generally just try to define the part of the activity that is offending. If they define geocaching, then all we need to do is change the game slightly, so that it no longer resembles their definition and carry on. They might stop geocachers playing in cemetaries for example, but then a week later, we might play the same game with a map/compass and no GPS in the cemetary and that's legal. What they're actually upset about is people hiding objects in the cemetary inciting others to visit to find it. Make the hiding and the inciting illegal, and today's problems are solved, as well as tomorrows.

Cached · Post by **Cached** » 10 May 05 2:01 pm

It won't prevent anyone from having a point of a geocache in a cemetry etc, i.e. finding information on a grave or the like.

This is one of the things IT DOES prohibit.

Cached · Post by **Cached** » 10 May 05 2:14 pm

The full thread is here:

http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index. ... 95351&st=0

It's very long, but worth ploughing through from start to finish.

The Garner Family · Post by **The Garner Family** » 10 May 05 3:09 pm

Cached wrote: This is one of the things IT DOES prohibit.

How? It prohibits you from hiding it there, but not from using information contained therein to lead you to the next point of a multi.

Slider & Smurf · Post by **Slider & Smurf** » 10 May 05 3:13 pm

The representative in question appears to have a history of drafting legislation in isolation, perhaps when another option would be more appropriate. Another of her attempted achievements was to draft a bill demanding the Dixie Chicks (the country music band) play at a musical benefit for military personnel and their families ... for free. All because the band in question had the nerve to question dear ole Dubbya's intents while entertaining the troops in Iraq. So much for freedom of expression! (Oh hang on, not if it conflicts with the Patriot Act!!)

<p>
Legislation is not the way to solve a problem like this - neither is it a good way to solve a perceived problem with damage in cemeteries and other historical places. Consider how a similar ban would affect caching in Australia, with the number of cemetery caches we have.
<p>
The existing laws covering criminal damage in South Carolina appear to already cover the situations proposed in this new bill. Doubling up just creates more red tape ... not a good thing.
<p>
On the plus side, there are a lot of SC cachers who are fighting the good fight and putting this all in context for their local representatives. I hope that sanity prevails in this case, or I suspect it will be the tip of the iceberg.

Cached · Post by **Cached** » 10 May 05 3:46 pm

(1) 'Geocache' means the container that serves the purpose of providing a place to store small items or logbooks which are intentionally placed by their owners.

(2) 'Geocaching' means the activity of participants using a global positioning system (GPS) device to locate the geocache or another specific location.

The "other specific location" is the killer - bans virtuals and multi -points as well.

Geof · Post by **Geof** » 10 May 05 3:57 pm

(2) 'Geocaching' means the activity of participants using a global positioning system (GPS) device to locate the geocache or another specific location.

Looks like courier companies and owners of GPS based in car navigation etc are now "Geocachers" as are members of the armed forces, hikers and survayers.

Cached · Post by **Cached** » 10 May 05 4:15 pm

That is the problem. And even though it may not be the intention, it becomes the law, and can be prosecuted when somebody has a narky day.