Bill before the South Carolina Senate

Team Red Devil · Post by **Team Red Devil** » 10 May 05 4:35 pm

One thing I don't get- why are they picking on geocachers?? Thousands and thousands of tourists enter cemeteries, and historic spots in SC all year through!! I have friends who live in various parts of SC- and the tourists are phenomenal in most of the historical areas according to them.

If they are going to ban geocachers from doing it- they might as well ban all the tourists. And think about it- technically- cachers are really tourists anyway - and I bet there are cachers who spend $$ at kiosks, canteens and other touristy places- money lost if they ban everyone.

I think it would be better to amend the bill to say something like 'It will be illegal for anyone to place any object bigger than 2" X 2" in any area designated as a cemetery, historical site or area as stated by the SC Senate'. At least thats a compromise!

Make them get specific - listing EXACTLY where you ARE and ARE NOT allowed to place a 'cache'. Thats what I would be pushing for anyways.

Marie

Lt. Sniper · Post by **Lt. Sniper** » 10 May 05 5:10 pm

Its good and bad IMO, although cemeteries are a bit of a downer for caching in.

Scout · Post by **Scout** » 11 May 05 12:09 am

Team Red Devil wrote:If they are going to ban geocachers from doing it- they might as well ban all the tourists.

I think what they are trying to do is keep respect for cemeteries. They don't mind tourists visiting cemeteries. What they mind is people using cemeteries for games, which they see as inherently disrespectful. So, questions about size of cache, physical caches vs virtuals, lots of tourists vs a few geocachers, etc., are irrelevant in their minds. To them, cemeteries are just not suitable sites for games, no matter how good care the players might take of the grounds.

Note, I'm just trying to explain the mind set of the proponents of this bill. I'm not advocating any position myself.

Slider & Smurf · Post by **Slider & Smurf** » 11 May 05 1:06 pm

Agreed, some people find that playing games in a cemetery is disrespectful. Other cemeteries have picnic tables installed so families can visit their dearly departed and have lunch!! More and more funerals are a happy celebration of life instead of a somber mourning ... perhaps the 'culture' of cemeteries will also gradually change.

Then again, I'd be more concerned about drunks, kids, druggies etc. disrespecting cemeteries than a cacher or three.

But I'm probably biased ... I think my 3G-grandmother enjoys the visitors

The Coffee's · Post by **The Coffee's** » 11 May 05 9:38 pm

Very intersting reading. Put these two paragraphs together and read:

(2) 'Geocaching' means the activity of participants using a global positioning system (GPS) device to locate the geocache or another specific location
B) It is unlawful for a person to engage in the activity of geocaching or letterboxing in a cemetery, archeological sites, or on the historic properties of the State, as defined in Section 60-12-10(4), the South Carolina Inventory of Historic Properties, or the African-American National Register sites without the express written consent of the owner or the state agency which oversees these properties or sites. 

Reading this the correct way by state law interprits as the following:
If I turn on my GPS in a cemetery to check on my location, or to look up a new set of coordinates, I have broken the state law code:

TO AMEND THE CODE OF LAWS OF SOUTH CAROLINA, 1976, BY ADDING SECTION 16-17-605 SO AS TO DEFINE THE TERMS "GEOCACHE", "GEOCACHING", AND "LETTERBOXING", TO PROVIDE THAT IT IS UNLAWFUL TO ENGAGE IN GEOCACHING OR LETTERBOXING IN CEMETERIES, ARCHEOLOGICAL SITES, OR ON THE HISTORIC PROPERTIES OF THE STATE, AND TO PROVIDE A PENALTY.

What does this mean to us here in Australia?
If geocacheing.com decides to abide by this law, will they disable or archive caches located in cemeteries?, thus archiving same caches in Australia. This is only a thought on my part but I hope there is support worldwide to stop this bill,

Team Piggy · Post by **Team Piggy** » 11 May 05 10:54 pm

Where is geo.com located ? Not in South Carolina from what I know?
Therefore only caches in that state are at risk?

Besides, if Jeremy wants to play hard ball just archive em and move over to geo.com.au instead ! easy..

Richary · Post by **Richary** » 11 May 05 11:25 pm

With all this happening, I must admit I feel uneasy about hunting through cemeteries for caches. Especially when hidden under gravestones or the lump of stone on the top whatever that is called. Personal choice, but I do believe the actual graves should be left alone.

OK, have found some in those situations, and some I have now decided I wouldn't revisit. I think a cemetery cache should be in the shrubbery somewhere and the description should make that clear.

As for historical areas, what's the problem? As long as it isn't somewhere the find will cause damage?

Cached · Post by **Cached** » 11 May 05 11:54 pm

After discussing this very thing with a fellow cacher, as a direct result of the SC stuff, I disabled "Welcome to Angle Vale" a few weeks ago.

As a genealogist, I really love cemetries as places of history.

As a geocacher, I need to consider what relatives might think about our activities.

I have done one cemetary cache in my travels that made me feel really bad and I still think it was inappropriate. We should consider what outsiders would think was appropriate if we are going to place cemetary caches.

riblit · Post by **riblit** » 12 May 05 12:43 am

Mr.Coffee and the Clan wrote:
Reading this the correct way by state law interprits as the following:
If I turn on my GPS in a cemetery to check on my location, or to look up a new set of coordinates, I have broken the state law code:

I use a gps in a cemetery to record the position of certain graves so I can mark them on a cemetery map that is sent to relatives and descendents if they want to know where a person is interred.

What does this mean to us here in Australia?
If geocacheing.com decides to abide by this law, will they disable or archive caches located in cemeteries?, thus archiving same caches in Australia. This is only a thought on my part but I hope there is support worldwide to stop this bill

As it's a South Carolina state law (if it is passed) it won't effect any other US state or other country. 
Cemetery trustees in the US can do strange things. One had all the headstones rearranged an alphabetical order to make it easier for visitors to find them. 
Archaeological or historical sites are already covered in the guidelines.

zactyl · Post by **zactyl** » 13 May 05 1:14 am

There's a lovely old cemetary across the road from where I grew up, and where my parents still live. As there were no caches in town, I figured it'd be a nice spot for one *cough* vacation cache *cough*, so it's a peaceful walk through old graves to find the right headstone, get the clues and find the cache hidden in bushland nearby. The age and condition of the grave makes it unlikely that there are living relatives that visit it, and while I can appreciate that others might feel differently, no disrespect is intended by using it as part of a treasure hunt.

Cached · Post by **Cached** » 13 May 05 11:19 am

I honestly can't imagine anybody having a problem with a cache like that.

WTAV had a micro hidden next to a stone and another inside the little fence that they put around. In hindsight, not a good call, and it has been disabled and will be removed.

There's on between melbourne and adelaide called "Chain of Command" that has a similar hide - without the little fence. I'd never want that one removed, its' a top cache in a great cemetary and is what cemetary caching is all about - learning stuff about those who have gone before.

Slider & Smurf · Post by **Slider & Smurf** » 13 May 05 2:45 pm

Team Piggy wrote:Where is geo.com located ? Not in South Carolina from what I know?
Therefore only caches in that state are at risk?

Besides, if Jeremy wants to play hard ball just archive em and move over to geo.com.au instead ! easy..

GC.com is here in Seattle ... along with Microsoft, Amazon, Starbucks, Boeing and a whole bunch of other big US companies!!

If the SC legislation manages to get up, there should be no reason why it would affect any other US states or any other country in the world - it should just be an additional check for the SC approvers to make.

xf king · Post by **xf king** » 14 May 05 9:37 am

Most of that sounds fine to me, as I would never place a cache in many of those except for a historical site.. But in historical sites you may still have to e careful on whre you hide the cache. Cemetry caches I would say is a little rude, especially when a cache is hidden right on top of somebodys grave, even if they person was buried in the 1800's.

president & 1st lady · Post by **president & 1st lady** » 14 May 05 10:19 am

We have just hidden (yesterday) a micro in a war cemetry. I know for sure that the RSL want people to visit this site, what better way to get people then put a cache there - we had never been there, but we've now been there at least twice.

I can see how people could find cemetry caches as disprespectful, but commonsense should guide you when using these locations.

1st lady

Facitman · Post by **Facitman** » 14 May 05 11:44 am

One of my favourite caching experiences was in a cemetery, Maccamob's Ã‚â€œBoroondara MahalÃ‚â€