Another question about sharp items...

[Hamster-man]

Hi All,
Since I am VERY new to this game I thought I would try and establish a general opinion on pocket knives in caches. I Know that the GC.com rule forbid them and that there have been several posts about this topic in the past but...

On the very first Cache I found 2 days ago I found a very nice set of Travel scissors (not listed as a band item) that I swapped for - which got me thinking why is something that has two blades (and a 'trapping' action!) fair game when a small pocket knife is not??

My logic for this matter is that if the item is shrink wrapped shut (which I would do) - then any children in the Team who find the cache WILL NOT be able to open the knife - which will then allow the adults to choose if that is a suitable swap - age dependant. Now while many may say that it would NEVER be a suitable swap - having been through cubs, scouts and venturers and always being proud of my pocket knife - I would beg to differ!

Also I would have thought that in this day and age (and the remoteness of the caches I am planning) that children under the age of 14/15 WOULD NOT be allowed to go hunting for caches by themselves.

I am happy to follow the rules for the future caches that I am planning - but just thought I would see if my line of thinking is waaaay off the mark or that others have similar feelings... Besides I think EATING Mcdonalds constantly to get all the Mctoys required is FAR more dangerous

[Blaze_au]

I think you should have a look at the Vic Police web site, knife, even pocket knives can be seen as a weapon these days

http://203.25.230.66/weaponsid/content/weaponsearch.asp

• Categories of Weapons
  The Control of Weapns Act 1990 divides non-firearm weapons into three basic categories.
  # Prohibited weapons - these weapons which are considered inappropriate for general possession and use without an Exemption or an Approval from the Chief Commissioner of Police
  # Controlled weapons - these weapons that can be used for legitimate purposes, but require regulation because of the possible danger they pose to the community
  # Dangerous articles - these are any other articles, which are adapted or modified so as to be capable of being used as a weapon, or any other item which is carried with the intention of being used as a weapon.

[xf king]

I like the rules of GC.com about sharp items. Personally I would not be putting scissors in a cache either, even though it would be very unlikely a person could hurt themselves with such a small thing. Pocket knives are a bit different. Even if you did swap for a pocket knife.. You would stick the knife in your bag and the next thing you chuck the bag on the back seat and your 4 yr old starts playing with it..

Knives are not the wrost things in caches, i have taken out illegal firecrackers before. Me and a mate of mine knew what we were doing and disposed of them down the back of his country property.

[Waterwells]

On the very first Cache I found 2 days ago I found a very nice set of Travel scissors (not listed as a band item) that I swapped for -

Same find here (Scissors), in a cache I found a few days back! ... I swapped the scissors out just in case a '4 year old muggle' accidentally stumbled upon the cache!

My logic for this matter is that if the item is shrink wrapped shut (which I would do) - then any children in the Team who find the cache WILL NOT be able to open the knife - which will then allow the adults to choose if that is a suitable swap - age dependant. Now while many may say that it would NEVER be a suitable swap - having been through cubs, scouts and venturers and always being proud of my pocket knife - I would beg to differ!

How secure is 'shrink wrapped shut'? (I'm sorry, it's a term I'm not familiar with. Is it absolutely 'child muggle' proof?)

Also I would have thought that in this day and age (and the remoteness of the caches I am planning) that children under the age of 14/15 WOULD NOT be allowed to go hunting for caches by themselves.

Ditto .... if only we could convince ALL parents to speak the same language! ...

I am happy to follow the rules for the future caches that I am planning - but just thought I would see if my line of thinking is waaaay off the mark or that others have similar feelings...

Forget about 'the feelings, just plant those damn caches! ..

[Hamster-man]

Hi Blaze_au - I checked out the prohibited weapons page above (under knives) and there certainly is a few of them! Except all of those classifictions don't cover the standard lock knife or swiss army knife mechanisms. However I would think that the open blade could be interpreted as being a 'dagger'...

I can understand the otherside of things - the danger potential is there. I Can't say I agree with it though - as I have always been brought up with the 'nut behind the butt' type attitude with Firearms and Knives (Ex. competitive shooter)!

Hi Waterwells - The shrink wrap I was thinking of is the plastic tube type you melt with a butane torch to form a hard-rubber band - which would have to be cut off! However as you have pointed out - if a Muggle child was to find it they would mearly take it home to open it...

So I guess the only option left to me (to garantee the age of the finder) is to leave photo-vouchers to be claimed back AFTER they state that they are 16years or older.... or even just sell of all of the knives on Ebay and convert them back to Mchappy meal toys!

As for planting Caches... hold your horses Waterwells I have only had a GPS for 3 days now! I expect to plant the first one up here in Ulverstone by the end of the week....

[Blaze_au]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people...

Being a country lad, and a shooter from the age of 14, I was taught how to repect and correctly use firearms.

I can still remember the time I played paintball, while we were getting the weapons, you could spot the people with training and feared for your sight from those who didn't, some people just don't have a clue.

[crew 153]

I did a dearch on the gc.com forum and the earliest message I can see is the following where Jeremy explained why he added knives to the banned list.
<p>
http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index. ... =55267&hl=
<p>
I don't see how this affects us in Australia but there are plenty of other things to put in caches so I don't have a problem with not wanting to put knives in one.

[riblit]

This subject has been discussed at length in other threads. <a href ="http://forum.geocaching.com.au/viewtopi ... ives">Here </a> is one that shows the concensus of opionon.

[Lt. Sniper]

I have to say that when I first started caching I wondered what I could put in caches, so I went to BigW and bought stuff like tent repair kits, canvas sealant etc, but I also bought 2 pocket knifes which I placed in caches

I cant for the life of me remember which caches they went into but I learnt from other's messages that knifes where a ‘no go’ item quite quickly.

[EcoTeam]

I have always been of the opinion that pocket knives are an excellent swap, I have no problems with them what so ever.
I believe that everyones problem with them as a swap is because a child might get at it. While this a noble thought, I think that you've got to look at it in perspective.

Who lets their kid open a cache without supervision?
What kid doesn't have access to some form of knife or other sharp object in their own home?, or at the local supermarket?, or at a friends house?, or at school?
How many other dangers are there simply searching for a cache? - often many times greater than a pocket knife in a cache.

Oh, but some kid may accidently stumble across the cache without supervision - well what parent lets their kid out on their own to stumble upon such a cache?

The rule is silly and being very PC, I don't like it.

Vote one for pocket knives

EcoDave

[EcoTeam]

Hi Blaze_au - I checked out the prohibited weapons page above (under knives) and there certainly is a few of them! Except all of those classifictions don't cover the standard lock knife or swiss army knife mechanisms. However I would think that the open blade could be interpreted as being a 'dagger'...

I read the (NSW?) legislation a few years back when the new knife laws came in.
I remember reading that there are many exceptions to the rule for carrying a knife, things like it being a work or sport related requirement or you need it for peeling fruit (seriously!)
So all you have to do it carry an orange with you and you have a legitiment excuse
Actually, the sport part is interesting, in fact it may have been something like "recreational persuit". In that case you can most likely legitimently carry a pocket knife while geocaching

EcoDave

[Dingbats]

Hamster, I think your thoughts are sensible and I agree with you. Matches are another item that raises debate.<p>

If the cache is unlikely to be found by unsupervised children I don't think it is unreasonable to use these items as treasure in a cache.<p>

I saw the link to the Vic police reference, in NSW there is rather strict legislation covering carrying knives which you may wish to consider if in the state.

[EcoTeam]

I found this old snipit, don't know if it's still current though, aparently it was when the new NSW knife laws came in many years ago:

(2) Without limitation, it is a reasonable excuse for the purposes of this
: section for a person to have custody of a knife, if:
: (a) the custody is reasonably necessary in all the circumstances for any of the following:
: (i) the lawful pursuit of the person's occupation,
: (ii) the preparation or consumption of food or drink
: (iii) participation in a lawful entertainment, recreation or sport
: (iv) the exhibition of knives for retail or other trade purposes,
: (vii) genuine religious purposes, or
: (b) the custody is reasonably necessary in all the circumstances during travel to or from or incidental to an activity referred to in paragraph (a), or
: (c) the custody is of a kind prescribed by the regulations.
: (3) However, it is not a reasonable excuse for the purposes of this section for a person to have custody of a knife solely for the purpose of self defence or the defence of another person.

So next time you are stopped tell the cops you are carry the knife home as a tool from work, while doing some geocaching, peeling some fruit, and on your way to meet someone who wants to buy the knife.
No problem!

EcoDave

[Horus]

Hi Waterwells - The shrink wrap I was thinking of is the plastic tube type you melt with a butane torch to form a hard-rubber band - which would have to be cut off! However as you have pointed out - if a Muggle child was to find it they would mearly take it home to open it...

<p>
Ironic isn't it that you would need to use a sharp object to open a package that contains a sharp object, simply because you have to protect someone from hurting themselves! The world has gone mad.
<p>
By the way - welcome to geocaching in Tassie Hamser Man, you don't need to worry about damaging your health eating all those McDonald's meals for swap items, we don't use them here in Tassie. In fact we need to put you straight while you are still learning, swap items in Tassie are generally of higher quality than anywhere else in Australia. In fact it's not uncommon to find vouchers for full car services, weekends away at Cradle Mountain, year passes to National Parks, that sort of thing - just didn't want you to start off on the wrong foot
<p>
Oh and if you bump into a couple of mad looking guys that have more drool than is biologically necessary, don't worry - it'll just be CraigRat and I trying to catch you so we can have a look at your 60CS

[Hamster-man]

Hi again all.... I didn't mean to open such a LARGE can of worms here - but it is good that my thoughts are shared by others! I do think as a nation we are beginning to wrap children in too much cotton wool... They aren't THAT fragile - I myself remember bouncing lots of times Safety and security I agree with totally - but gravity and reality teach well remembered lessons!

Anyway at this stage I am pretty much convinced that I will operate on a voucher system (with the finer details of delivery to be thought of!) - that way the local Terrorist Possums and Wobalies won't get any weapons from me! I guess I should have done a lot more research into things before buying aheap of cool knives for swaps, as I now have to supply all of my planned caches with fresh oranges as well

Horus - Thanks very much for the welcome! It was Craigrats and yourself's forum posts and webpages that convinced me that a GPS would come to other great uses in Tasmania. Plus like most gadget freaks, a lot of the fun was in the research and purchasing the 60CS at the cheapest price!

As for these extravagant swaps... I have already lined up a winning powerball tickect, the Keys to a Ferrari Enzo, The title deeds to a Penthouse Silo Appartment and also The actual Holy Grail! Hopefully they will suffice for first round swaps!!