Hints galore

Mind Socket · Post by **Mind Socket** » 31 January 05 9:43 am

It's Monday morning and I need to vent after seeing the weekend's logs coming through ...

Does anybody log DNFs anymore, or is it suddenly acceptable to phone a friend for a hint the moment a cache gets a little difficult??? I'm not singling anyone out in particular, since it's rampant. I personally get no pride from having to get a hint, and it's kind of annoying to see caches that I slogged out the hard way being logged en masse because most others get a hint. Going home with your tail between your legs occasionally is part of the game.

Don't get me wrong, a hint after a couple of serious attempts is fine, but people just seem to be getting more and more reliant on it. Or am I imagining things?

- R

ToolkiT · Post by **ToolkiT** » 31 January 05 9:55 am

Cut down on the coffee on monday mornings (actually it is sunday night here in the civilised world

)

but seriously, haven't noticed it myself..

The Rats · Post by **The Rats** » 31 January 05 10:19 am

Its good to let off a bit of steam first thing on a Monday morning Rog (pity the people at your work) but you're exactly right. Furthermore some cachers dont log anything for an attempt on a cache.

Big Red Expeditions · Post by **Big Red Expeditions** » 31 January 05 10:57 am

Personally, I don't mind anyone using the "phone a friend" option, and I've even done it myself. After all, it's up to you how you choose to play the game, and you're only in competition with yourself. What I do object to, is people not logging DNF's as they are an important part of the feedback mechanism for the hider. Anyone care to check our logs, and you'll see we log plenty of DNF's for the simple reason that on that day we Did Not Find it! Even if we don't find it, becuase the search was cut short for some reason, (muggles, toilet, beer) we still post a note, just to say we were there, and we'll be back for a 'proper' search.

If you don't find it, LOG the DNF!!

Phlosten · Post by **Phlosten** » 31 January 05 10:59 am

In our short experience our way of thinking is, we usually don't log a DNF until after a decent attempt.

ie. went to find a cache but within 10 mins it was dark, will try again tomorrow., so won't log until the next attempt.

If after a serious attempt we can't find it, we will log a DNF. That way the cache owner can keep track of it and if a few DNF's show up hopefully go and check the thing.

I think its a good idea from a quality control perspective. If there is a cache with half dozen DNF's and there appears to be no note from the cache owner about checking it's existence, then future cachers will prob avoid going to look for it. ....It's common courtesy for cache owners and future cachers alike to log a DNF.

I read all logs before i go. That way I can see if someone else has had trouble finding it and know that I aint the only one having trouble.

Maybe the general quality of caches needs to be looked at. Quality caches usually lead to quality cachers. Of the few caches I have logged there are probably a couple that had I known the final area prob wouldnt have bothered. If the cache location is in a shit spot with bugger all going for it except the co-ordinates then i wouldn't blame people for not bothering to log a DNF if they can't find it. We aint in it for the numbers, we are in it for the locations, the scenery, the bushwalks, the history.

Keep em wonderful!

Cheers,

Mind Socket · Post by **Mind Socket** » 31 January 05 11:14 am

Big Red Expeditions wrote:After all, it's up to you how you choose to play the game, and you're only in competition with yourself.

True, but as I said, the sense of acheivement on a particularly difficult cache is reduced when followed by lots of logs from others who spent 30 mins on it and then phoned in the answer. I'm sure the hints vary from cryptic to outright obvious.

As a cache setter, I'd prefer if someone having trouble would contact me instead of a previous finder, so any hints, if any, are consistent.

No fones on phirst attempts,

- R

EcoTeam · Post by **EcoTeam** » 31 January 05 12:43 pm

I've got no problems with people calling me on the first attempt, esp if they have come a long way and it's not easy for them to get back, or have been searching for hours etc
I've been guilty of it a few times myself, as I know I'll almost certainly never be back to attempt the cache because it's out of the way or whatever.
Actually, I often dislike having to go back to a cache time and time again, esp if it's supposed to be an easy traditional cache. Easy Traditionals are just that, they are supposed to be easy to find, if you are spending hours or multiple trips then something is wrong and phoning for help I think is perfectly acceptable. The journey is supposed to be the reward.

The puzzle caches and MEGA themed caches are often different as the reward is solving the clues and having fun that way, I enjoy those from that perspective.

I'm not a big fan of those who do not log attempts and DNF, and I have noticed that hadly anyone seems to do it any more. I try and log attempts or DNFs at every opportunity.

EcoDave

Rabbitto · Post by **Rabbitto** » 31 January 05 2:09 pm

Phlosten wrote:In our short experience our way of thinking is, we usually don't log a DNF until after a decent attempt.

ie. went to find a cache but within 10 mins it was dark, will try again tomorrow., so won't log until the next attempt.

If after a serious attempt we can't find it, we will log a DNF. That way the cache owner can keep track of it and if a few DNF's show up hopefully go and check the thing.

Agree. 

A DNF to me generally signals that there is possible trouble at Cache City unless it is a particularly tricky Puzzle Cache as discussed above where they would be the norm.

If we could not give the search justice, we would post a note rather than a DNF, but if we've given it a good crack then a DNF goes on the list.

Team Red Devil · Post by **Team Red Devil** » 31 January 05 3:44 pm

We've not logged a DNF because most of the time- when we're out and about- Scott will grab the gps- and do a nearest waypoint search, and then go for a wander. 99% of times its too dark, or theres lots of creepies out, so he'll come back cacheless. When this happens- we call it recon, because we will use any information he gleaned from heading as close as he could to GZ in a 'true' attempt at a later date. 
 
Marie

ian-and-penny · Post by **ian-and-penny** » 31 January 05 4:10 pm

If someone takes the time to log a DNF on one of my caches, I will, in turn contact them to either give them some assistance, or to determine if the cache has been muggled.

I log DNF if We have made a "decent" attempt at looking for it. (Because this helps the cache owner and other prospective seekers. In most cases the cache owner has been able to confirm the existance of the cache, or provide a hint for next time.

Regards

Ian

Mind Socket · Post by **Mind Socket** » 31 January 05 4:20 pm

Looks like most peepz agree on the DNF thing, that it's a good idea to log a DNF if you've had a good crack at it.

- R

SNIFTER · Post by **SNIFTER** » 31 January 05 6:14 pm

Have to agree with you Rog. We (The 2 Dogs) don't like this phone a friend idea and another one we don't like is having to go to someones ego tripping web site to get clues to a cache. The cache site is where the clues should be. There is a place for it after all.
We log DNF if we have given it a good shot but not if we haven't tried hard. Often a note is sufficient to let the cache owner know that it is in progress.
Another one is "found the cache but it was 10 meters out". Pity these people were not around when we only had 2 digits not 3 like now.

swampgecko · Post by **swampgecko** » 31 January 05 6:43 pm

Roll your eye if you have been guilty of this sin....

yes I have... but mainly out of total frustration, ie... MS04, which BTW I finally finished today, Like sitting under the tree staring at the clue, knowing you have the info that you need to crack it, but no idea of to do it.... I do generally log either a DNF or WIP...

The DNF normally occurs if I have made a good go of it without success at the final wp, the WIP is normally used for those sadistic caches like MS04(BTW did I mention that I finally completed it today?) or Webguy's Picnic at Waterlily Waterhole, where you have no hope of completing it in one day.

Dooghan · Post by **Dooghan** » 31 January 05 8:10 pm

I think it a good idea to log DNF. It lets the ower know if there is a problem with the cache and also a good source of information for other finders. Once I used a DNF log to find a cache. The log let me know not to look in that place. So all DNF have to be bad. On a resent trip down to Brisbane I had to log 3 DNF. I just want to let the owner know I attempt they cache and I just ran out of time to find them.

Dooghan

Post by **caughtatwork** » 31 January 05 8:58 pm

Maybe I've just been very lucky, but my DNF count is really quite low. Less than half a dozen I think. Some of which have been found after multiple visits.

Of those, 2 were archived after my DNF and 1 I found after a third attempt.

As far as calling for help, I have used the phone numbers in the profiles and have made a list. I think I've called maybe 4 or 5 people.

Dak, maccamob, pprass, blaze_au and The Eltham Mob are the only ones that come to mind.

Dak helped me get past a missing waypoint and now the cache is archived as the missing waypoint in critical.

maccamob have helped a couple of times, once when I was out near Ballarat and couldn't find the darn thing under the heavy tree cover (and my bad maths).

pprass confirmed that I had to travel back home to find some info on the internet about one waypoint.

blaze_au and I had a great conversation after I got called back to a cache site by the police. He'd caught the whole thing on a webcam, so it was even better to see myself showing the police what I was diong

dcr helped me when the whole family was out and they were dissappointed in not being able to spot the cache after an hour or so of waypoint finding (long multi).

I don't use the phone extensively, but if I do need help, then I will call the cache owner or if I don't have their number, a recent finder. These are extreme sitations. Generally after an hour of looking, looking, looking.

As far as hints in the logs, most of the time I don't put them in. Sometimes they creep in inadvertantly. I will occassionally put in a variation if I think it's significant enough. I think the worst variation I put in was about 35 meters. I was the FTF and since then the co-ords have been adjusted. Another FTF (after 3 or 4 previous finders didn't) and I put in a variation of 8 meters.

These don't tell the cacher where it is, but if a finder is stumped, sometimes this helps, knowing that their GPSr and the hiders GSPr may be out on different days.

Not everyone is aware that a hurried hide with poor averaging can result in a location not all that close to the actual location, especially when their hunting on a day where there aren't that many sky birds.

It's hard to know when to put something in to help a future finder (and the owner) and when not. I suppose if the owner decided that the hints were too obvious they could ask for the log to be changed, but I've never had anyone ask that.

I presume that hints along the lines of 'found it in the tree stump' would be out.

Remember that not everyone has been playing the game as long as some of the older cachers and some of us need a little help too.