Security Over Stepping The Line

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EcoTeam
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Post by EcoTeam » 30 January 05 5:46 pm

Team Red Devil wrote:Bronze- I was trying to be polite- I didn't want to offend anyone with what I truly thought of him! <br>
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One thing I actually wondered about was why do Security need growling,snarling dogs? To me- that is just like arming them with a gun. And I know there are certain Security positions that require Security to be armed-but the average joe security are usually never 'armed'. Dogs like that are DEADLY Weapons. And unpredictable. I don't care how much training a dog has had- there are certain triggers that can just set even the most well trained dogs off. And a dog is NOT going to deter a bullet as someone mentioned- so whats their purpose? Just to scare the shit out of people?
Yep, absolutely no other reason. Dogs scare the crap out of almost everyone and are legal. Other "weapons" like HUGE D cell Maglites are legal too, that's why every security guard carries one and will happily stand there looking menacing while slaming it into their hand :roll:

Dogs scare the crap out of kids and teenagers, the most likely trouble makers. Not many people are scared by overweight dounut eating security guards, any crim or teen worth their salt can run at least twice as fast as any security guard :lol:

EcoDave :)

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Post by Team Red Devil » 30 January 05 5:54 pm

Bronze- that explains it- but I still think its a bit extreme. I have heard many occasions where the dog was growling and snarling at people- and I think this is a problem. <br>
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I understand your fear. I have a Rodesian ridgeback and I only exersize him and train him out of town becuse he is just an awesome dog at intimidation. Loyal to the end and thats the fear because he will protect my boys and wife without stopping and thinking what the context is.
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I feel that if I had a large dog from a puppy, that my fear would be greatly dissipated- I used to own a Mastiff cross Pitbull- and she was the most soft mushy dog you ever saw- but if anyone came near me threateningly- she would sit in front of me as a warning to them to not come too close, and all it would take was one word, and she would heel, and retreat to a sitting position next to me. She always knew the difference between someone threatening my safety, and me fighting with my then boyfriend for example. (Mind you- if I'd said one word she would have protected me fiercely, and if he'd ever raised his hand to me or hit me- she would have ripped him to pieces). <br>
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Not sure where my fear came from- but its something I have to work on defeating. I also suffer slight agrophobia on occasion, and I'm working on that too.<br>
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Had it been me faced with that growling dog- I would have been instantly in panic. <br>
<br>
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Post by Lt. Sniper » 30 January 05 9:36 pm

zactyl wrote:...when he asked what you were up to, you acted like a jerk. It all escalated from there...
I know what your getting at but I didnÂ’t start off being aggressive. I only started when he demanded to see what was in my bag and in the boot which at the time I knew he couldnÂ’t do.

The point has been mentioned that the estate might be developers land (private property) so I will have to tread carefully with this.
There is no houses or even an attempt to start work with slabs etc. ItÂ’s all just grassed blocks with pavements and streets.

I am glad to see the discussion drifted into dogs, because the thing that got me was his use of the dog and how close he put it to me with its growling.


As for everyoneÂ’s comments, I will take this further, I am going to get in contact with the police and see what they have to say.

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Post by EcoTeam » 31 January 05 7:58 am

Lt. Sniper wrote:
zactyl wrote:...when he asked what you were up to, you acted like a jerk. It all escalated from there...
I know what your getting at but I didnÂ’t start off being aggressive. I only started when he demanded to see what was in my bag and in the boot which at the time I knew he couldnÂ’t do.

The point has been mentioned that the estate might be developers land (private property) so I will have to tread carefully with this.
There is no houses or even an attempt to start work with slabs etc. ItÂ’s all just grassed blocks with pavements and streets.
In that case there is a very good chance it is all private property, in fact I'd say it's a certainty. No one starts building those new estates without a)owning all the land, and b)getting all the relevant approvals and infrastructure in place (water, sewage, electricity etc). Someone owns it.

Dave :)

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Post by Team Piggy » 31 January 05 11:39 am

Hee hee hee..

Those that really know me, also know what type of company I own !

Guard overstepped thats for sure, but abusing him also doesnt win any points.

I would have simply asked him to please call the Police, and lodged a complaint of intimidation.
In fact if it was as harsh as you say with personal threats made, I would still be lodging a complaint now...

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Post by tolmh » 31 January 05 12:14 pm

The fact that you were on private property doesn't change a lot.

In Queensland, security guards may carry weapons, and they may use reasonable force to protect persons or property. The security officer may ask you to leave the property, and if you refuse, he may use reasonable force to remove you. Using a weapon would be extremely unwise, because the line between reasonable force and assault is a fine one.

Security guards in Queensland DO NOT HAVE POLICE POWERS. They cannot require you to answer questions, to provide information about yourself, or to search you or your vehicle. They certainly cannot intimidate or threaten you. If they observe you committing a crime, they may place you under citizen's arrest (as may any citizen). This isn't a wise course of action for a security provider, though - as with reasonable force, it's a fine line between citizen's arrest and wrongful arrest, false imprisonment or assault.

Security providers in Queensland are regulated (in part) by the Security Providers Act 1993. A person who has "used harrassing tactics" may not be an appropriate person to be given or to hold a license (see S11(4)(a)(ii)). I'd say that threatening you and menacing you with a dog would constitute 'harrassing tactics'. You should report a threat of violence made against you to the police.

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Post by Geof » 31 January 05 12:25 pm

The point has been mentioned that the estate might be developers land (private property) so I will have to tread carefully with this.
A GOOD idea
I will take this further, I am going to get in contact with the police and see what they have to say.
Careful it dosn't turn around and bite you on the ...

I think the dog thing etc is out out of order (but remeber this is QLD so you never know :roll: )

General Question
Any body know were we can find out what is private and what is not and if it's not who owns it? See below and you'l know why. land.vic.gov only tells half the story.

Last week I visited a posable cache site. I am led to believe the land belongs to a promanant government dept (that already has other longstanding caches on it's land). All went OK until visited a derilict building I have been in before. There looked to be signs of recent squater activity at the site and when I poked my head through a window I saw a 12 inch knife (like the one in crocodile dundee) stratigicaly placed standing on a bench next to the main door. At that point I very quitely left. It's just not worth it I thought :shock: .
I am still interested to know who owns the place. A cache will not be going in in the near future.

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Post by caughtatwork » 31 January 05 12:48 pm

Geof wrote:I am still interested to know who owns the place. A cache will not be going in in the near future.
General Co-Ords?

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Post by Geof » 31 January 05 6:35 pm

General Co-Ords?
PM coming your way.

Citria
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Post by Citria » 31 January 05 7:32 pm

Geof wrote:(but remeber this is QLD so you never know :roll: )
"remeber" "promanant" "derilict" "squater" "stratigicaly" "quitely"
<P>
Not that bright in Victoria are we?
Last edited by Citria on 31 January 05 8:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Manta
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Post by Manta » 31 January 05 8:05 pm

Geof wrote: I think the dog thing etc is out out of order (but remeber this is QLD so you never know :roll: )
<p>
And this coming from the state who's police force brought us the "shoot first ask questions later" principle?
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I don't think we need to single out states here as far as this discussion is concerned. No one state has the monopoly on guards who overstep their powers.
<p>
I think you should take this as far as you can, Sniper, and nail this jackboot to the wall. Let's see how bloody tough he is when he's on the dole queue.

Geof
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Post by Geof » 31 January 05 8:21 pm

I think the dog thing etc is out out of order (but remeber this is QLD so you never know )
That comment is aimed not at you but at the Government / law system. Yes ours have their short commings too.

Not meaning to upset you QLDers just pointing out that whats acceptable to some Governments is not to others.

Knot meenin too uppset u qlDers.... (Hi Citria :twisted: :lol: )

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Post by Citria » 31 January 05 8:30 pm

Snigger, Snigger. :lol: :D
That's Ok Geof - As you can see, I had to edit my post 3 times to make sure that I hadn't made any mistakes .... :oops:

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Post by Citria » 31 January 05 8:33 pm

Hey Sniper - I think you've just found a good location for the next QLD Caching picnic! :D
<P>
Bring your friend (and his dog!) :wink:

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Post by Manta » 31 January 05 8:35 pm

Great idea.
<P> For the activity we could place him in a cache and conveniently lose the co-ordinates....

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