New Virtual cache.. TSUNAMI..

Team Red Roo · Post by **Team Red Roo** » 07 January 05 12:14 pm

TEAM 360 wrote:you guys are all nuts

thank you

TEAM 360 · Post by **TEAM 360** » 07 January 05 12:20 pm

http://www.geocaching.ru

Okay, so maybe you won't be able to read it, but it stands by itself: forums, smileys, cache listings...

team_canyonero · Post by **team_canyonero** » 07 January 05 12:23 pm

Once again, I understand the position of GC.com in archiving the cache. If you want to turn your back on GC.com because you don't want to abide by their rights to have the ultimate say when it comes to caches then do so, but you will be the only person it hurts in the long run.

Instead of bagging GC.com and archiving all of your caches, why don't you guys/girls start up a charity website.

Years ago in the USA there was a sick boy who had a rare cancer and somebody thought it would be a good idea to send out a bulk email asking for people to send postcards to the boy to cheer him up. Eventually it tugged at so many peoples heartstrings that the little boy was receiving over 1 million postcards a week, and the burden it placed on the boy, his family and his support network was enormous. In the end it ruined what was left of his life. He died soon after, but the postcards are still flowing in (even to this day).

That's just an extreme example of what happens when you don't have guidelines to follow.

You could say that by having the tsunami appeal as a cache is actually LIMITING the response because it *only* gets to geocachers (mostly). And if you really do need a cache to prompt you to donate... shame on you!!!!

Lets keep geocaching a game and remember to have fun. Most of you will then realise how lucky we are...

Richary · Post by **Richary** » 07 January 05 12:28 pm

I don't believe archiving the caches from the US site will achieve anything either. It's fine to say we want our own site with our own rules, but the same problem will occur in that whoever runs the site will have their own rules in place that not everyone will agree with. If the hobby becomes fragmented we all lose as it just makes it harder to find all the websites to look on.

And for those keeping track of numbers, it gets complicated to say I have 400 finds on gc.com, 100 on gc.com.au and 50 on navicache or something similar.

I disagree with the censorship shown by the moderators over there, at least got to stir things up a bit last night while they were asleep

But that's another reason I rarely play in the their forums.

team_canyonero · Post by **team_canyonero** » 07 January 05 12:47 pm

Imagine if you will, the GC.com website is your house.

You have hundreds of people from all walks of life staying with you in various rooms of your house (must be bill gates home to afford all of those rooms

). One of them starts drinking in their room. At first you don't mind because you're not adverse to it, but eventually bad things happen (drunken abuse, things broken etc)

So you ban all alcohol, tobacco, and any illegal substances from your house completely. The next month, one of your residents starts smoking pot claiming they have cancer and it is the only pain releif they have.

What would you do...? Allow it and run the risk of the drinker ignoring your rules and drinking again? Or would you tell the pot smoker to either stop or leave the house...

And there's no point for the drinker or the smoker to get angry and trash the place because there are other people staying in the house...!

Silly example but it illustrates a point.

TEAM 360 · Post by **TEAM 360** » 07 January 05 1:12 pm

Yes, but what if we ALL smoked the pot? Everyone would get along just fine, laughin and gigglin like little girlies, hittin the 40 oz on the front porch and enjoying life....

Sorry, couldn't resist...

EcoTeam · Post by **EcoTeam** » 07 January 05 1:13 pm

Hounddog wrote:The argument about the Tsunami cache, is not the true problem here, it's just another symptom of a deep underlying problem that has existed in Geocaching for quite some time now..

I have being saying this for years. The GC site is a wonderful site and we have been very fortunate to have the dedication of Jeremy and his team, but, like anything, it is dangerous to have given total worldwide control to any one person or organisation.

Unless you go for an open source Peer-to-Peer system some how, then it will ALWAYS be controlled by ONE person. That person is the one who owns the domain name and pays for the server space. In the case of gc.com.au it's Ideology. Just like Jeremy can shut down the gc.com system any time he chooses, so can Ideology shut down or control the .com.au domain. I'm not implying anything here (we all know Ideology are great guys), just stating a fact.

Moving to gc.com.au achieves nothing at this stage, all it does it hurt the Australian caching community. I cannot understand why some have pulled their caches from GC.com. Just because one cache was disallowed?

It would be different if the entire set of rules and the entire game changed on .com or something similar, but nothing at all has really changed.

Unless every single Australian Geocacher moves to the .com.au site then it won't work. Almost everyone will still continue to use gc.com. Those who refuse to use gc.com will have a very limited game to play indeed.

I assume that those who who have pulled their caches will also boycot all gc.com listed caches and cache events as well? If so, good luck, you'll be playing a very small pond.

EcoDave

team_canyonero · Post by **team_canyonero** » 07 January 05 1:16 pm

[quote="TEAM 360"]Yes, but what if we ALL smoked the pot? Everyone would get along just fine, laughin and gigglin like little girlies, hittin the 40 oz on the front porch and enjoying life....

Sorry, couldn't resist...[/quote]

Hehehe i anticipated that response already...

Substitute M&M's for alcohol and Smarties for Pot... oh and lactose intollerace for cancer...

Disclaimer: Like, TC doesn't endorse the smoking of pot... man...

dcr · Post by **dcr** » 07 January 05 2:02 pm

team_canyonero wrote:So you ban all alcohol, tobacco, and any illegal substances from your house completely. The next month, one of your residents starts smoking pot claiming they have cancer and it is the only pain releif they have.

What would you do...? Allow it and run the risk of the drinker ignoring your rules and drinking again? Or would you tell the pot smoker to either stop or leave the house...

1. I would have a POLICY of no smoking, not GUIDELINES. There is a pretty big difference.

2. I would keep my published POLICY up to date; cf. http://www.geocaching.com/about/guideli ... commercial.
If I was banning things I would not state:

hypothetically wrote:Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the no-smoking-house.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before smoking. If you are in doubt, ask first.

I would state, clearly the current policy, rather than have it hidden away in a Bl@@dy forum topic:

hypothetically wrote: No exceptions will be made.

Having been on GC.com since February 19, 2001 it is the abitrary application of the "published guidelines" that has irked me and things have only got worse rather than better. Especially as 50 vocal people in the GC.com forums can kill off an idea enjoyed by a far larger number of people without the "guidelines" ever indicating a change to what is then acted apon as a "policy".

this is why it angered me,
cheers Darren

team_canyonero · Post by **team_canyonero** » 07 January 05 2:23 pm

Darren, i agree with you.

But (isn't there always), it's their house...

Part of the great thing about GC.com is that it is not political, it doesn't have a CEO or a board of directors, nor is it a government department.

If those things start creeping in, things start to get political... arguments, litigation and arbritration soon follow and eventually they'll throw their arms up and say "this isn't worth the hassle" and shut down the site...

Then what will i do with all my spare time...

I guess i could take up smoking pot in the house...

Team Red Devil · Post by **Team Red Devil** » 07 January 05 2:47 pm

Wow! Who would have thought that a unique way of helping the tsunami victims would turn into such a controversial subject! 
 
Personally, I believe exceptional circumstances need exceptional actions- and if I had 'guidelines' 'rules' or anything else- I would have to think about and consider (and this tsunami sure has set the benchmark on catastrophe) 'what ifs...'. Every rule can be bent/broken should the circumstances be exceptional- I mean who would have thought that this would happen and that so many would be affected? 
 
And I also am like minded with certain individuals who think that had the Tsunami been on American soil that there would have been a cache dedicated to raising funds for the victims. You just have to look at the country's politics. Bush 'thinks' that Saddam may have WMD, so he goes in and bombs his country, and effectively takes over Iraq. Now lets think about this- Bushy boy 'KNOWS' that Nth Korea has Nuclear Weaponry sitting waiting to be launched- and what does he do about it?? Politely says 'um excuse me- I don't want to make you angry or anything, but could you please dismantle the nuclear devices you have with intention to blow up and kill (who knows maybe millions) of people with please?' *Insert laughing Nth Korean President Here* If anything is NOT American- they don't want to know. Flat out. If there was a cache for Sept 11th, then there should sure as hell be one for this. 
 
Now- enough of my political rant- I don't think this cache should have been pulled. I will support the making of an Australian GC site- because we are Australian, and I think that it would take a load off of the people running the GC.com site, and bring Australian Geocaching where it belongs. Australia. Makes sense to me anyway. 
 
Marie - Team Red Devil.

team_canyonero · Post by **team_canyonero** » 07 January 05 3:20 pm

It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game... It's a game...

riblit · Post by **riblit** » 07 January 05 3:34 pm

team_canyonero wrote: it doesn't have a CEO or a board of directors

That's not quite correct. It is run by a company called groundspeak that does have a CEO and paid staff.
The policies of gc.com are dictated by the staff at groundspeak - read the archive note on the cache. In keeping with Groundspeak's policy...
and the signature block.
Rothstafari

Groundspeak

www.geocaching.com

Bronze · Post by **Bronze** » 07 January 05 3:44 pm

... and we are all but pieces within it.

Bit hard to keep playing when half your board has been hit by the garden hose.

How do your rules deal with that.

"In the event that your playing pieces are washed off the board those with the most dry pieces wins."

Rules can be bent - that's how are court system is structured with precedents. Yeah - sure it's not perfect but that because we don't live in a perfect world. If it was would woldn't be having this discussion. Instead we would have this thread locked by now. Like in a perfect forum.

Geocaching could support it but won't. Too much work unraveling the all of rubber bands. They did it once three years ago and look how sticky that has made this.

Bronze.

ideology · Post by **ideology** » 07 January 05 5:34 pm

team_canyonero wrote:Yeah that's right take a stand... what are we standing for or against again...?

we are taking a stand against actively stopping people from trying to helping out in what must be one of the biggest catastrophes in modern history. it's one thing to be apathetic, but it's entirely another thing to actively stop people. groundspeak had the opportunity to do something really great but didn't because of their own guidelines. if the guidelines stop people from trying to raising money for this, then the guidelines are wrong

Dak's Emu Mob wrote:Archiving your caches hurts nobody but your own mates: us! The people in the US will feel absolutely no pain at a few Aussie caches going west.

we aren't doing it to hurt the people in the US. we just don't want to have anything to do with their guidelines. we are sorry to inconvenience you, and we will do our best to list caches so that you can find them easily if you want to do them

to other comments on dividing the community:
firstly, we don't want to divide the community either, but we can't agree with guidelines that actively stop people trying to help in such a tragedy. to us, it's just morally wrong, and someone needs to say so! as for working with them to fix the problem, it's very hard when the moderators shut down threads so quickly
secondly, judging by the comments in the forums, there seems to be a much nicer community here than on the secondary site

EcoTeam wrote:I assume that those who who have pulled their caches will also boycot all gc.com listed caches and cache events as well? If so, good luck, you'll be playing a very small pond.

our issue is with the cache listing guidelines, so we won't be listing caches there, but we don't see a reason not to find caches listed there. we'd like to continue to attend events if we are welcome