"Commercial" events?

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Just a cacher
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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by Just a cacher » 01 June 15 1:02 pm

I think the point is that this is a Groundspeak issue.

I feel it should be brought up there, if someone has a problem.

GA isn't going to care about a GC listing.

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Happy Chappies
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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by Happy Chappies » 01 June 15 1:28 pm

gmj3191 wrote:It seems ironic that GCA was formed in an atmosphere of rebelling against the restrictions and commercial controls imposed by Groundspeak. Free and open caching was the catch cry.

Now there seems to be all this concern that the Groundspeak rules are followed to the nth degree.
In raising the issue here I wasn't actually seeking a GCA 'position' on it. What GCA itself thinks about the cache doesn't matter to me. I was just seeking the opinions of fellow cachers, and this just happens to be the only forum that I frequent to seek such feedback, that's all.

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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by caughtatwork » 01 June 15 1:52 pm

There is no GCA. There is only the geocaching community who are member of the GCA website. As there aren't enough GCA caches to restrict yourself to one site, a discussion on a Groundspeak cache probably has interest to all of us. Especially since if this event goes ahead there may be others of a similar nature. That has an impact on everyone who plays geocaching.

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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by Big Matt and Shell » 01 June 15 2:10 pm

<reviewer hat on>

I don't tend to have too many issues with it in line with the GC guidelines. So long as there is no entry fee to get in I have no issue with using an area that suits the community. I was actually thinking of going myself.

I've often wondered how many dinner events have been held at restaurants that the CO has had some financial interest in. At the end of the day we can't cater for every scenario.

Play on...

<reviewer hat off>

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gmj3191
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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by gmj3191 » 01 June 15 2:23 pm

caughtatwork wrote:There is no GCA. There is only the geocaching community who are member of the GCA website. As there aren't enough GCA caches to restrict yourself to one site, a discussion on a Groundspeak cache probably has interest to all of us. Especially since if this event goes ahead there may be others of a similar nature. That has an impact on everyone who plays geocaching.
Of course there is a GCA. There's a controlling Senate, a shop, a website, a server facilities contract, probably bank accounts, and some pages even have GCA copyrite attached.
As such. it's most likely a legal entity, and able to be sued. In fact it might need to be incorporated as an association or similar to do what it's already doing.
Therefore it's important to stay neutral in matters which can have, for want of a better word, commercial, consequences.
As there are no doubt individuals who can legally be held accountable, we would not want to see them come to grief, and we would not want to see this wonderful resource lost to the geocaching community.
Therefore, best to stay out of these matters, and particularly for the principles not to start taking positions or using potentially defamatory descriptions of events or people.
It was a wise move to delete that other thread where such things may have occurred.

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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by caughtatwork » 01 June 15 2:49 pm

gmj3191 wrote:
caughtatwork wrote:There is no GCA. There is only the geocaching community who are member of the GCA website. As there aren't enough GCA caches to restrict yourself to one site, a discussion on a Groundspeak cache probably has interest to all of us. Especially since if this event goes ahead there may be others of a similar nature. That has an impact on everyone who plays geocaching.
Of course there is a GCA. There's a controlling Senate, a shop, a website, a server facilities contract, probably bank accounts, and some pages even have GCA copyrite attached.
As such. it's most likely a legal entity, and able to be sued. In fact it might need to be incorporated as an association or similar to do what it's already doing.
Therefore it's important to stay neutral in matters which can have, for want of a better word, commercial, consequences.
As there are no doubt individuals who can legally be held accountable, we would not want to see them come to grief, and we would not want to see this wonderful resource lost to the geocaching community.
Therefore, best to stay out of these matters, and particularly for the principles not to start taking positions or using potentially defamatory descriptions of events or people.
It was a wise move to delete that other thread where such things may have occurred.
GCA does not have an an ABN and is not registered as a business.
Money made from the shop has tax paid. It's not a business belonging to GCA, per se. It's run by me on behalf of the community. I pay the tax on any profits made from my own pocket, so there is no loss of any money paid to the shop (goods or donations).
The senate does not control the website, per se, they act on behalf of their state community, but I suppose you could say that if the senate made a decision it would most likely be upheld. The developers have wide reaching development control over the site, but not all power is vested in them.
GCA does not have a server facilities contact. I hold that personally (in fact it's due right now).
We don't have a bank account in the GCA name (see shop above).
Not sure about the copyright thing. If you give an example I can respond.
GCA is not a legal entity, as such. We don't require to be an incorporated association.
GCA is not responding to any of the queries here, only interested community members.

The other thread was removed for a couple of reasons. One being a threat, another being a commercial advertisement until the senate comes to a decision. If it turns out that the senate accept that the Oz Mega Committee is allowed to present the Oz Mega Queanbeyan as a topic for discussion, the thread will be returned.

We are, however off topic, so if you would like to continue a discussion I'd be happy to split this off to another topic where greater understanding of GCA, it's runnings, who does what, where the money goes, how it's accountable, whether the senators or developer gain any benefit, or any other discussion you like can take place. All of this information in in the forum, but I appreciate it wouldn't be easy to piece it all together.

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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by gmj3191 » 01 June 15 3:12 pm

The point, is best not to put all this to the test by straying from neutrality in commercial matters.
You guys have done a terrific job over the years. I certainly don't want to create any more work for you by asking a lot of questions about how you run your business (even if it is a hobby run for the benefit of others).

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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by caughtatwork » 01 June 15 3:19 pm

Big Matt and Shell wrote:<reviewer hat on>

I don't tend to have too many issues with it in line with the GC guidelines. So long as there is no entry fee to get in I have no issue with using an area that suits the community. I was actually thinking of going myself.

I've often wondered how many dinner events have been held at restaurants that the CO has had some financial interest in. At the end of the day we can't cater for every scenario.

Play on...

<reviewer hat off>
Thanks Big Matt and Shell. That clarifies the situation for me greatly. As I have received a response where the event stands, I unconditionally withdraw my statement.

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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by Just a cacher » 01 June 15 3:55 pm

I have asked questions about how GCA is run, and where the money comes from, and where it goes, in the past, and I have received clear concise answers on every occasion. It's sad that other volunteer organisations are not as transparent and willing to share knowledge.

I strongly feel that GCA as an entity should perhaps try to stay neutral where it's possible, but that the senate (and other) volunteer workers are entitled to have an opinion about anythig they want to, and should be able to voice it here.

I am just a member and I can have an opinion. I get 'sat on' if I ask questions that are inappropriate, and that's fair, too. I have a right to my opinion. So does does every person who belongs to GCA.

I do not think anyone should try to muzzle any individual unless he/she is breaking the law, or deliberately and unnecessarily hurting someone for no reason.

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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by CraigRat » 01 June 15 5:30 pm

gmj3191 wrote:It seems ironic that GCA was formed in an atmosphere of rebelling against the restrictions and commercial controls imposed by Groundspeak. Free and open caching was the catch cry.

Now there seems to be all this concern that the Groundspeak rules are followed to the nth degree.
If you look back in time in the forums archives you'll find innumerable discussions about the rules of other sites. It is a safe place to discuss these things, whereas elsewhere you may find your question gets hit with a ban-hammer quicker than you can say 'signal-the-frog(r)(tm)(c)'

Any recent discussions around commercialisation outside of this thread have been in relation to *our* no commercial advertising rules.

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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by CraigRat » 01 June 15 5:35 pm

gmj3191 wrote:and some pages even have GCA copyrite attached.
Hmm, there shouldn't be.. Can you find any please? It should be at most a Creative Commons license.

We don't even hold the copyright on our logos....

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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by gmj3191 » 01 June 15 6:22 pm

From what I can see every shop page has the GCA Logo at the top and this at the bottom.

Image

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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by CraigRat » 01 June 15 6:49 pm

gmj3191 wrote:From what I can see every shop page has the GCA Logo at the top and this at the bottom.

Image
Ahh, pre-boxed software.

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Re: "Commercial" events?

Post by caughtatwork » 01 June 15 8:06 pm

CraigRat wrote:
gmj3191 wrote:From what I can see every shop page has the GCA Logo at the top and this at the bottom.

Image
Ahh, pre-boxed software.
Correct. It picks up the site name from the cart configuration and the current year. We have no customisation in the cart, so we have no copyright over the content. It's OSS from www.opencart.com

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