Hiding Caches with a Smartphone..

[2max]

Now I know there exists amongst a few members a bit of a divide between 'real cachers' and 'smartphone cachers' but please hear me out, because I would really love some opinions and advice...

The story so far... I'm absolutely loving caching, and really want to 'give back' to the game that is giving us so much fun. I've identified around 7 or 8 historically interesting spots that I think would be fabulous for a cache not all that far from home (I'm in a pretty rural area so there's a lot of hidden/out of the way spots tucked away). Some of these sites also actually have the potential to link other existing caches together, to fill in the gaps and keep the 'tour' going.

I've been eyeing off a low end Garmin, but with our farm still trying to recover from the drought, a family to feed, and everything else life throws at you, we just don't have the spare hundred or so dollars laying around. Each time I think I can swing it, something else pops up.

I've been working away for 5 or so weeks slowly making up some caches. I have 6 all set to be put out and I'm pretty excited about it all. BUT... with no GPSr the only thing I can use is my iphone. My plan, at the moment, is to visit the GZ at each site 3 times before publishing the cache. That way I can get 3 separate coordinate readings and average them to make sure it's as accurate as possible - is this the best way to go about it? Does anyone have any advice or tips about placing caches using a smartphone, so that I can get the very best accuracy? Is there an app that is maybe more accurate than the Groundspeak one for giving coordinates? (Although I've found the GS one to be pretty darn accurate when looking for caches). Also would it be wise in the listing to say that it's been hidden with an iphone and that I welcome any corrections? I intend to put some very clear clues in the Hint field, for anyone who is having trouble.

If the general consensus seems to simply be, "PLEASE DON'T" then I will hold off 'til I can get a GPSr but that may not be until the springtime. But I'd really like to put some out now...

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to any comments - good or bad, everything will be accepted and taken on board.

[McPhan]

Unless you say (like you just did) that a cache was hidden with a Smartphone I'm not sure anybody would be any the wiser. I've seen (and been responsible for) some pretty ordinary co-ords using a GPSr .

What would really interest me is if you could hook up (figuratively) with another cacher in the area that uses a GPSr and see what the difference is if both employ the same technique. Then let us know how it went.

[jusojara]

One way to perhaps overcome the inaccurate coordinates problem would be to include a detailed description of where the cache is hidden (eg in the stump or under the NE corner of the structure). Then the coordinates will get the cacher to the general area and the description will tell them where to look.

[colleda]

How accurate has your smartphone been in locating caches? If it consistently takes you to GZ then maybe it will be accurate enough using averaging. Or does it get you not so close and then you start hunting?

[2max]

Unless you say (like you just did) that a cache was hidden with a Smartphone I'm not sure anybody would be any the wiser. I've seen (and been responsible for) some pretty ordinary co-ords using a GPSr .

What would really interest me is if you could hook up (figuratively) with another cacher in the area that uses a GPSr and see what the difference is if both employ the same technique. Then let us know how it went.

Good suggestion McPhan, thanks. I'm not really sure if there are any other cachers in my immediate area.. though there are a few caches hidden around here, I know that at least one of the CO's is over an hours drive away and another CO about an hour away. I am keeping an eye out though. My nearest GCA Guru is also an hours drive away.

I saw some logs a month or so back of someone who openly states that they use an iphone to hide caches and they seemed to get a few negative comments about the coordinates. I'm wondering now if I should just not mention it on any of my cache pages and just make sure I have really good clues. Good to know that even the GPSr's can have their 'off' days too. Ta

[2max]

One way to perhaps overcome the inaccurate coordinates problem would be to include a detailed description of where the cache is hidden (eg in the stump or under the NE corner of the structure). Then the coordinates will get the cacher to the general area and the description will tell them where to look.

Thanks jusojara. Yep, I reckon that's probably the right way to go, so I'm grateful for the input. I've seen some Hints along the lines of "look harder" (or similar) but I intend to pretty much give the location away in my hints.

[2max]

How accurate has your smartphone been in locating caches? If it consistently takes you to GZ then maybe it will be accurate enough using averaging. Or does it get you not so close and then you start hunting?

Hi colleda, yeah on the whole my iphone has been pretty good so far. A couple of times it has only got me within 1 or 2m but by the time you're that close you've usually got some ideas of where it is likely to be anyway. Other times it has led me to 0m from GZ and been 100% spot on. And then there was the day it wouldn't get me any closer than 10m... which actually hasn't happened again so I think it may have just been the strong winds and the thunderstorms that were brewing overhead that day, that may have put it off.

I'm thinking along the lines of that if I go with the 3 visits and check the coordinates for averaging, that I will make sure that I do it in good weather just to be on the safe side.

Well the replies so far have made me feel better about this already, so I'm looking forward to any other advice that may be offered. Thanks!

[gmj3191]

Just hide it, say you used an iPhone, and be responsive when/if finders come back with better coordinates and update the listing.
For some reason iPhones seem much worse in the GPS area than Androids but I'm not sure why. Maybe Apple bought a large number of cheap GPS chips.

[wileyclan]

Just hide them and don't mention anything about the method you took to get the coordinates. You are doing the right thing by getting the readings over differnt days/times, the same as you (well most of us) would with a dedicated GPSr. I have taken coordinates with the Dakota 20, using the average function, that have been 4 to 5 metres out when I go back the next day for the readings.


If your caching has shown that you arrive in the right spot using the phone, then why would it be different to place a cache?


thats my 2c worth anyway

[Richary]

Hide it, state that you only have a smartphone to get coords and you have visited 3 times to confirm the coords are as accurate as you can get them. Also state that you will happily accept any updates from someone with a real GPSr. And provide a good hint if it is somewhere where the hiding spot won't be that obvious.

I generally have few problems finding caches with the iPhone, and in some cases it seems to get me closer than the Garmin (which may be because the caches were hidden with a phone, I don't know).

[rinsemesocks]

If you hide it with an iphone on the groundspeak site, and it is an iphone with a real gps like an iphone4, make sure you say that. If you hide one with a iphone3, the reviewer will knock it back as it wasn't hidden with a phone that has a real gps. I know this from early experience in hiding and I had to switch to an android phone [from which I have never looked back from].

[akkatracker]

If you hide it with an iphone on the groundspeak site, and it is an iphone with a real gps like an iphone4, make sure you say that. If you hide one with a iphone3, the reviewer will knock it back as it wasn't hidden with a phone that has a real gps. I know this from early experience in hiding and I had to switch to an android phone [from which I have never looked back from].

I have hidden gnomes with a tablet and no problems +3m accuracy using the averaging app
RMS all your coordinates are good so don't worry

[quiet1_au]

It's the care taken and accuracy that are important, not the tool used. I always use the waypoint averaging feature when I place a hide which takes ~60secs of readings until it gets a 100% confidence in the coords. That doesn't mean it is correct however! Only the the reading was consistent at that time - it might still be 10m+ off... Averaging again after an hour (which is what my Garmin says if I reaverage too soon) or days gives better results - the more readings the better. If your device has no averaging feature take several readings manually, check the numbers (discard way-out coords) average the (decimal) minutes by hand.

A simple check on your coords is to just stick them in Google Maps, switch to satellite view and zoom right in to see where it's showing. I don't know how accurate the maps are but they seem pretty good - and its a good way to catch typos too. The cache reviewers seem to use this (I had a comment about one of my hides), and I often use it for making tricky cache finds easier/quicker, and finding the best approach routes.

Placing your cache near a landmark is useful as is a decent hint. There's nothing worse than a cache hidden "in a bush" when there are nothing but bushes for miles around... Some caches I've found seem to ignore much better hides by a hint-friendly landmark (tree, post, whatever) and seem to be just plonked down in the middle of nowhere without much thought. I guess its these kinds of hides that tend to get associated with the "smart phone noob cacher" stereotype...

[wileyclan]

I don't understand why people are saying to put in the cache description that you used a smart phone to take the coordinates. Do they put in their cache descriptions that they used Garmin XXX/Magellan XXX/GPSr XXX? I have never seen it, although I must admit that here in WA we are somewhat secluded.

Take your readings like you said you were going to and submit the caches, time will tell if you have issues and then you can ask for help if need be

As quiet1_au says,

It's the care taken and accuracy that are important, not the tool used.

Now up to 4c worth

[blossom*]

I also like to use the google satellite view to zoom in and check that the co-ords look about right.

And I probably agree that it's not necessary to state that you used your iphone to hide the cache. As long as you have a good hiding spot with a good clue, there should be no problem.

Looking forward to your new caches