Cache/puzzle spoilers

[noikmeister]

In response to a thread wandering slightly off topic that I wanted to contribute to, I've continued it here.

on a related topic about sharing information...
As someone who has the most number of puzzle caches in Australia and I know that my puzzle final coords do get handed around, for the first time ever in 7+ years of caching I will now say this: Those who do this are dicks. Please stop. It's mildly annoying but more to the point, it's not in the spirit of the game.
If you sit down with someone and explain how you solved my puzzle, then Bravo!, thank you for saving me a job. If you meet with a group of people and work on my puzzles, learning from each other then Bravo! also.
But just giving them the coords? Please don't, instead ask them to ask me for more hints and ideas until they can solve it. Otherwise just be content you can't solve it. It's no big deal, I can't solve tons of puzzle caches.

You can't change the way people want to play this game. If someone wants to find my nightcaches during daylight or a wherigo by hacking the cartridge or log a treecache where somebody else brought down the logbook it's just the way it is. As an owner placing a cache is an offer to experience something. If somebody decides not to have that experience, they miss out. I don't.

As an owner I only care about that the guys signed the logbook, didn't destroy anything, didn't annoy any muggles along the hunt and hopefully had a good time.

I agree with both perspectives.
1: You create a creative hide or puzzle because you enjoy the act of creation and enjoy imagining people solving it. Their sense of triumph and hopefully an appreciation of the puzzle. If they want to come along for the journey, great! If they don't they are only cheating themselves out of enriching their own life.

... no point getting would up about it. I know that people do it, can I stop it? No. It falls a long way down the carefactor now...

Agreed, but

2: It is worth saying: Don't cheat yourself of life enrichment! Contact someone (preferably the CO) for some help. Collaborate with a fellow cacher who hasn't solved it. I'd happily give a hint that would all but give away a solution if someone asks and shows me their efforts so far. It is extremely enlightening to hear about what people have tried and how they have solved a cache.

[lemmykc]

I have done puzzle answer swaps in the past.

I have set up Google Docs with other cachers where we both contribute to the answers stored in the doc. I have also set out to solve puzzles with these same cachers. We all enjoy putting our brains together to solve some of the harder puzzles around Melbourne however I have a feeling that there aren't many puzzles around Melbourne that are similar to the Adelaide ones. From a quick glance, Melbourne puzzles look much much easier than those Adelaide ones.

[Laighside Legends]

on a related topic about sharing information...
As someone who has the most number of puzzle caches in Australia and I know that my puzzle final coords do get handed around, for the first time ever in 7+ years of caching I will now say this: Those who do this are dicks. Please stop. It's mildly annoying but more to the point, it's not in the spirit of the game.
If you sit down with someone and explain how you solved my puzzle, then Bravo!, thank you for saving me a job. If you meet with a group of people and work on my puzzles, learning from each other then Bravo! also.
But just giving them the coords? Please don't, instead ask them to ask me for more hints and ideas until they can solve it. Otherwise just be content you can't solve it. It's no big deal, I can't solve tons of puzzle caches.

+1
Well said - couldn't agree more

Yes that's right MtnLioness, I don't care if you have the final coords to that puzzle/multi I want to do it propaly...

[MtnLioness]

Yes that's right MtnLioness, I don't care if you have the final coords to that puzzle/multi I want to do it properly..

Um... excuse me....

I have them because I have contributed to solving them.
Don't begrudge me because I solve in a group.
Go right ahead and solve it yourself, I was only offering because I had a part to play in solving some so I was keen to get them.
(as you would be)

[blossom*]

puzzles are normally wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllll beyond me I would be MORE than happy to have a group of people to work on them with but Sydney doesn't seem to have such a group - we're all a bit far spread out I think.

Just about every puzzle I've ever found was due to some big hints fom the CO or a collaborative effort with a friend (who probably contributed more than me to the solving!) But personally, I'm not interested in being simply given the co-ords, I have to add at least some value to the search.

[Papa Bear_Left]

I've occasionally put a 'failsafe' in a puzzle cache to stymie the "got one coord and walked the line" types, but there's no defence against someone simply being given the GZ coords.

There's a sharp distinction in the logs from our puzzles, though. The ones who've actually solved it write joyous notes of challenges overcome and victory earned. The ones who've tagged along or been given the coords write "TFTC" in the written version of a dull monotone.

Getting a smiley on a puzzle without solving it, even with help, is a Pyrrhic victory but, as a cache owner, I've come to feel more pity than annoyance for the cheats who've missed out on the positive experience.


Setting up webpages or even formal group documents seems like a sad and mean thing to do, though. People are lazy (it's generally an evolutionary good thing to do to learn from someone else which berries are poisonous!) and will find it harder to persevere with a puzzle when the solution is made so easily available. One on one discussion makes it easier to help the would-be solver along without taking away all of the thrill of finally solving it.

[RebornCyclist]

I'm interested by the comment

Setting up webpages or even formal group documents seems like a sad and mean thing to do, though

,
given that my feelings (as Tassie cachers are aware after my recent pentulance ) are close to Z's on this, BUT my favourite find was one where another cacher and I (neither of whom had found the cache) attacked a puzzle and shared our workings in a Google doc.
In the end, we went out together and found and then solved the final field puzzle and found GZ together.
Despite my fairly hard-nosed attitude to puzzle hint/cooord sharing, this seemed to be a reasonable thing to do.
Or are we talking about a different sort of "group document"?

[lemmykc]

I'm interested by the comment

Setting up webpages or even formal group documents seems like a sad and mean thing to do, though

,
given that my feelings (as Tassie cachers are aware after my recent pentulance ) are close to Z's on this, BUT my favourite find was one where another cacher and I (neither of whom had found the cache) attacked a puzzle and shared our workings in a Google doc.
In the end, we went out together and found and then solved the final field puzzle and found GZ together.
Despite my fairly hard-nosed attitude to puzzle hint/cooord sharing, this seemed to be a reasonable thing to do.
Or are we talking about a different sort of "group document"?

I agree, I was quite confused by this. Why is it bad to solve a puzzle in a group?

[caughtatwork]

A group document is shared location where YOU solve the puzzle, ADD it to the document and OTHERS just use the solution with no involvement. They can ADD if THEY solve a puzzle then YOU just use it. i.e. No collaboration, simple sharing.

[Papa Bear_Left]

Setting up webpages or even formal group documents seems like a sad and mean thing to do, though.

If it's just an online version of a "let's nut this out together" session, then it's one thing. If it's an "OK, let's all list the coords of the puzzles we've solved for everyone else to share" site, then my opinion stands, especially if there's a fairly large group involved.

[lemmykc]

Setting up webpages or even formal group documents seems like a sad and mean thing to do, though.

If it's just an online version of a "let's nut this out together" session, then it's one thing. If it's an "OK, let's all list the coords of the puzzles we've solved for everyone else to share" site, then my opinion stands, especially if there's a fairly large group involved.

What is your opinion if it is between two people and both contribute evenly?

[PrincessDiala]

What is your opinion if it is between two people and both contribute evenly?

Just two??

[Philipp]

Just two??

Liam's question was very hypothetical

[RebornCyclist]

OK, thanks for the clarification, Mr Bear.
I agree that having a shared document listing puzzle coords would be extremely poor form.

[Facitman]

Just another aspect to this concept.
A number of times I have walked away from conversations at events because cachers have been discussing solutions to puzzles. I understand that people like to share war stories but it often surprised me how oblivious some people were to the possibility that others might want to solve these puzzles without any unwanted hints. Just a polite, "Have you found so-and-so? No, ok we are going to talk about this one, do you mind?"
Don't even start me on the people who rush around at events trying to extract co-ordinates, and the rush of "finds" on puzzles shortly after a nearby event.


Ok, my rant is over.....sorry, my therapist says it's good for me to get the rage out.....