Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

For all your general chit chat, caching or not.

Should geocachespoilers (AKA Sven. on GC.com) be banned?

Yes he should.
28
46%
No he shouldn't be banned
33
54%
 
Total votes: 61

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lemmykc
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Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by lemmykc » 29 October 11 5:52 pm

OK, for a few months I have been watching this man on youtube called Sven. and I enjoyed his videos a great deal. I have gotten many ideas for some of my own caches after watching his videos. His youtube name is geocachespoilers and, as you can imagine, he posted videos showing how creative caches were hidden. Just today I saw one of his latest videos:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OW8Yy_HChuk .

Sadly, he has been BANNED from caching :( :( What are your thoughts on this? I personally don't think it is fair. Another thing that should be noted is that he didn't post ANY GCcodes or names of caches or coordinates. Apparently in the Terms it says that you may not post any spoilers on GC.com regarding caches listed on the site. He was posting them to his blog though, not on the site.

Thoughts?
Last edited by lemmykc on 29 October 11 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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caughtatwork
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Re: Some sad news (well, for me anyway)

Post by caughtatwork » 29 October 11 6:03 pm

I have little sympathy for someone called geocachespoilers who posts videos of other people hides who then gets treated like a leper. If you did that to my cache I would be right royally annoyed.

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lemmykc
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Re: Some sad news (well, for me anyway)

Post by lemmykc » 29 October 11 6:07 pm

caughtatwork wrote:I have little sympathy for someone called geocachespoilers who posts videos of other people hides who then gets treated like a leper. If you did that to my cache I would be right royally annoyed.
Yes, you make a fair point HOWEVER he didn't say what cache was what. And funnily enough, he didn't actually break the terms.

One more point is that he asked for a refund on his Premium Membership but they refused.

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caughtatwork
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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by caughtatwork » 29 October 11 6:17 pm

Does it matter what cache is what? No.

These are not his hides and therefore it is inappropriate to disclose the actual hide and method. How would you feel if I posted a video spoiler of your hides? You may not care if someone outside your area sees it. Someone who lives in your area however may have watched the video and when they rock up to the location their memory will trigger the location for the hide you spent hours and hours working on.

Whether he breached the TOU or not, he is an irritation of the highest order and deserves the treatment he has received.

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blossom*
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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by blossom* » 29 October 11 6:27 pm

I can see that he didn't break the exact letter of the law. But I think he did go against the concept of not interfering with another hiders cache. If I had gone to a lot of trouble to think up an idea that nobody else had ever done, I would be upset to see my idea published for all to see, copy and learn from.

I know he didn't identify the caches involved but it would certainly take away any ingenuity needed for people who had watched his videos and then came across a cache using that idea.


Still it's a fine line, becasue I know lots of people discuss various hides they have found and I've seen photos of clever camo here and there over time too. Maybe he was just TOO blatant by naming it geospoilers, collecting a number together and publishing it in a spot that would go world wide.

Banned? I would hope they gave him a warning first but I suspect not.

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lemmykc
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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by lemmykc » 29 October 11 6:36 pm

These are not his hides
Actually, some of them are. Majority are not however he has uploaded quite a number of his caches.

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Papa Bear_Left
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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by Papa Bear_Left » 29 October 11 6:58 pm

From the Terms of Use:

"You agree not to:

...

m) Publish, in any form of media, the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the cache owner."

Seems pretty clear-cut to me: he breached the TOU and probably annoyed a lot of cache owners in the process. I'd certainly be annoyed if one of my manufactured hides was featured this way without my consent.

There's probably more to the story than we've seen, as well. There usually is!

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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by TwoDrews » 29 October 11 11:14 pm

I enjoy watching his videos. I think he does more good than bad because he is encouraging people to strive to make better, more inventive caches. Anything that encourages people to put out something better than a box under a tree covered by a few sticks is good IMO.

I've been following his story. And I believe he has been asked by a couple of cache owners to remove the videos of their cache. And he would not comply, which I think does not help his cause. I think he should have pulled them to keep the peace.

As a previous poster has mentioned, he does not give out the cache name, number or specific location. All he says is that the caches that he features are in 'The Midlands'.

If it was one of my craftily crafted hides that he exposed would I be upset? I think I wouldn't. I'd be flattered. And the chance that someone would watch the video then stumble across my featured cache? About a million to one I reckon. The world is a very big place...

What I'd like to know is when GC.com is going after all the other videos on youtube that expose hides. They have pilloried Sven for this but are the others going to get the same treatment?

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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by Dvixen » 30 October 11 12:33 am

If he spoilered only his own geocaches, I'd say unfair. But he spoilered caches by others, possibly even without consent. If he has refused to comply with removal requests from those owners whose caches were publicized without consent... [-X

It's GC.com's sandbox - and he did agree to certain guidelines in order to play their game.

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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by MtnLioness » 30 October 11 1:23 am

I agree, kinda.
If he was spoiling his own, yes unfair, that's his own prerogative.
But if he spoiled yours?
Well......

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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by budgietas » 30 October 11 6:37 am

Yes I can see that he done the wrong thing, and I see why people are annoyed. But to ban somebody is a very big step. I wold prefer to see some sort of outcome other than this because now he can go to hides quite freely and video and distribute, just not log the finds. In the end of the day it would be better to keep him in the system not outside it.

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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by CraigRat » 30 October 11 7:54 am

If he doesn't give away the location (he normally doesn't) or the GC code or even what part of the country he's in then the amount of people it's going to impact would b in the realms of < 1%

Apart from the fact that I'm a cache under a bush guy, if someone came along and posted off site video of my caches without stating what they were or the code I'd be a little annoyed till I looked at it objectively:

1) The amount of cachers looking at his vlog are quite small
2) The amount of cachers that are in his immediate geographic area looking at it would be substantially smaller

If I was a cacher actually looking at his site to make it easier to find those SPECIFIC caches, I'd also be decoding the hints before looking and asking other cachers by phoning them and other ways around the system too no doubt.....

Not saying that it's right to do it, only that the impact of him doing this is less wrong than some of the comments I've read, specifically when his intent was to show people cool ways of hiding caches.

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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by oldfella » 30 October 11 8:11 am

I am of two minds on this one. I know rules are rules but he has not really given too much away if anything. Is there a history betwenn this guy and gc.com that is unknown to the wider community. Has he upset someone in that organisation in the past and this is the response because he gave them the means to teach him a lesson. Just my two cents worth.

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Cheesy pigs
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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by Cheesy pigs » 30 October 11 8:46 am

As an aside, when did it become the general consensus that a box hidden in the bush under a handful of twigs was an unworthy cache? I have seen this comment on a few threads here and don't understand the mentality behind it to be honest. Some cachers are incapable of solving the difficulty 5 cryptograms or identifying the fake street sign or whatever.

I'm getting tired of the "I hate nanos, and easy caches hidden under a tree" mentality. When did we start becoming exclusive, rather than inclusive?

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Re: Geocacher banned on unfair terms (IMO anyway)

Post by Big Matt and Shell » 30 October 11 9:04 am

Papa Bear_Left wrote:From the Terms of Use:

"You agree not to:

...

m) Publish, in any form of media, the solutions, hints, spoilers, or any hidden coordinates for any geocache without consent from the cache owner."
That's all I need, you break the TOU you get banned, simple. We all agree to them but I seriously doubt more than 5% ever read them.

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