Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

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nutwood
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by nutwood » 30 September 11 4:39 pm

caughtatwork wrote:Shelter III (and others).
http://coord.info/GCVQCN

4 finds, 220 DNF's.
I think a cache CAN be tough to find, even if the co-ords are good. They may just be so well hidden, you literally can't see it.
Wow, I'm impressed. Many like that in Australia?

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Hoojar
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by Hoojar » 30 September 11 4:54 pm

nutwood wrote:Wow, I'm impressed. Many like that in Australia?
http://coord.info/GC22VR9 springs to mind

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Big Matt and Shell
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by Big Matt and Shell » 30 September 11 5:10 pm

Zalgariath wrote:I FTF'd a terrain 5 cache yesterday which with a bit of thought required 200m of walking across a paddock. I felt a bit dirty as it was intended for a boat to be used... but the hider didnt realise the cache was on a peninsula, not an island! :twisted:
I hope you asked for permission! You rotten trespasser :stabby

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Pesky!
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by Pesky! » 30 September 11 10:55 pm

I tend to agree with those that are saying the Diff 5 which fairly often coincides with High terrain ratings, is an indication that you aren't very likely to be "just grabbing" this one on your way back from the corner store. I would expect that a 4 or 5 rating would indicate some preparation is required, and part of this preparation may be acquiring a watercraft or rough terrain vehicle for your attempt. I don't think it is indicating that a 4x4 is "specialist equipment" more so a caveat that if you do it without some of this equipment or preparation you may be finish up tired, sore and come home without a :D !

nutwood
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by nutwood » 30 September 11 11:38 pm

Hoojar wrote:
nutwood wrote:Wow, I'm impressed. Many like that in Australia?
http://coord.info/GC22VR9 springs to mind
You don't know how sad you've made me. I had a contract in Perth last year, I was working a few hundred metres from this very spot. I even purchased a drill bit from Bunnings. I walked there and back, but (sob) I'd never even heard of caching then.
Life can be so cruel!

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lemmykc
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by lemmykc » 01 October 11 6:09 am

Hoojar wrote:
nutwood wrote:Wow, I'm impressed. Many like that in Australia?
http://coord.info/GC22VR9 springs to mind
I looked at this page (thanks to your mention) and found there to be another new one by the same owner that has been out for approximately 350 days and is still yet for a find. i think it would probably be a Diff5 but it is 1/2 star less :roll:

I would also be interested to see what other caches there are around Australia that are similar to this.....

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Zalgariath
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by Zalgariath » 01 October 11 6:51 am

Big Matt and Shell wrote:
Zalgariath wrote:I FTF'd a terrain 5 cache yesterday which with a bit of thought required 200m of walking across a paddock. I felt a bit dirty as it was intended for a boat to be used... but the hider didnt realise the cache was on a peninsula, not an island! :twisted:
I hope you asked for permission! You rotten trespasser :stabby
There was no gate, no signs and clear access to the water's edge. I only found out it was in fact Private property when I returned and asked the hostel owner about it. I have emailed the cache owner as I think he made the same judgement. Regardless of approach, sea or land, the cache appears to be on provate property. There is no meantion of this one th cache page or meantion of permission so I emailed the owner. If he doesnt get back to me I will be reporting the cache. 8-[ Land access rules over here are a bit sketchy... public access is in heaps of places, including ON and ACROSS private land. So much so you are often walking through cows and sheep and past farm houses... completely legally. :-k Be glad in Oz its a bit more clean cut :D

team waldron
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by team waldron » 06 October 11 11:06 am

So what would people think of this one?

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_de ... wp=GC1AJF9

We've just been there and of the 3 cars that went out there only two made it back to Coober Pedy. If this was attempted in the middle of summer and the car broke down, chances are no-one would be coming by for a while. The corrugations on the Anne Beadall Highway were the worst I've come across for such an extended period of time.

This cache is only rated a 4 terrain but I think it could be upped to 4.5 or 5

The potential for injury/death is what I rate on.

PS the vehicle was recovered a couple of days later at considerable cost. Amazing how important some bolts are on a car.

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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by Yurt » 07 October 11 9:39 pm

lemmykc wrote:
Hoojar wrote:
nutwood wrote:Wow, I'm impressed. Many like that in Australia?
http://coord.info/GC22VR9 springs to mind
I looked at this page (thanks to your mention) and found there to be another new one by the same owner that has been out for approximately 350 days and is still yet for a find. i think it would probably be a Diff5 but it is 1/2 star less :roll:

I would also be interested to see what other caches there are around Australia that are similar to this.....
http://coord.info/GC2FP43
As a finder of the original 'Sucker' and the owner of its brother (sister?) cache in Sydney this new one always intrigued me but I've only had one trip to Perth since it was published and no chance to search. Amazing how few DNFs have been logged over a year. Hmm.

http://coord.info/GC275X1 The Sydney version has nothing like the same find/DNF ratio but can still be tricky for some!

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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by Zytheran » 10 October 11 6:45 pm

This has been noted before by others but I have a system for terrain rating at the high end of the scale.

4.0 You might get injured finding this but you will be able to self rescue. (Broken arms, wrists, trashed ankles, bad flesh wounds)
4.5 You might get seriously injured finding this and you will need a chopper out. (Broken legs, hips, back)
5.0 You will die finding this if you screw up and/or don't use proper safety equipment.

4.5 has been verified here http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx ... f8300abaef with a failed attempt on my Quadragon Query. The medical ground crew couldn't get there.

With this in mind there is grey area with 4.5 or 5 terrain. There are a couple of 5 stars I freeclimbed others wouldn't however I try to rate it for an average person, a not a thrill seeking lunatic. Even 4.5 stars can be tricky, and a clamber could turn into a death fall if you fell in the wrong place and was really unlucky. I have absolutely no issue with anyone using a backup belay for the tricky/dangerous part of 4.5 terrain caches, it's probably a clever thing to do. :oops:

As for difficulty I can only really speak for puzzles and not for nano hides in horrid places. For guidance look through my 120+ puzzles, from the feedback rating has never been an issue and there is some method to the madness depending on the types of way the coords are hidden and the number of layers of solution needed. Of course this has now set a trend in Adelaide and this might not match others rated caches elsewhere however if you solved all of them you'd have a pretty good idea on how to rate any sort of puzzle IMHO.

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Yurt
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by Yurt » 10 October 11 8:05 pm

On difficulty I was wondering how you'd rate a puzzle that wasn't mega hard (say 2.5 on its own) which led to a series of waypoint caches that were all a bit tricky. Would it accumulate in difficulty or stay about the same rating for all of them - say they are 3-3.5 hides. Terrain rating is going to be around 4.

Will probably never get around to this idea but I've been thinking about it!

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lemmykc
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by lemmykc » 10 October 11 8:22 pm

Yurt wrote:On difficulty I was wondering how you'd rate a puzzle that wasn't mega hard (say 2.5 on its own) which led to a series of waypoint caches that were all a bit tricky. Would it accumulate in difficulty or stay about the same rating for all of them - say they are 3-3.5 hides. Terrain rating is going to be around 4.

Will probably never get around to this idea but I've been thinking about it!
I actually just placed a cache similar to this (well, terrain is 1, but the whole other part is similar)! It is a cache called You're Barking up the Wrong Musical Pipe in London and it involves being given one simple line of morse code (there you go hunters, your first clue :wink:). It then goes onto another puzzle, another WP that has an obstacle that you need to get around (I wont reveal it here), then some research that is much more difficult than it seems, and then another WP that contains multiple copies of a puzzle that will reveal where GZ is. Both WP hides are a little creative and the final is in a brilliant spot. I rated mine 5/1 because of the difficulty of all of the stages (including puzzles) combined and the effort that must be put in it. Mind you, it is not as hard as some of the Adelaide puzzles that I have briefly looked at. (BTW, I also chose the 5/1 combo because I know some P81 junkies who needed it. it would probably be a 5/1.5 in truth, however I don't think half a star makes much of a difference when it is that low. I was just being kind :D

nutwood
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by nutwood » 10 October 11 10:01 pm

Zytheran wrote:This has been noted before by others but I have a system for terrain rating at the high end of the scale.

4.0 You might get injured finding this but you will be able to self rescue. (Broken arms, wrists, trashed ankles, bad flesh wounds)
4.5 You might get seriously injured finding this and you will need a chopper out. (Broken legs, hips, back)
5.0 You will die finding this if you screw up and/or don't use proper safety equipment.

4.5 has been verified here http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx ... f8300abaef with a failed attempt on my Quadragon Query. The medical ground crew couldn't get there.

With this in mind there is grey area with 4.5 or 5 terrain. There are a couple of 5 stars I freeclimbed others wouldn't however I try to rate it for an average person, a not a thrill seeking lunatic. Even 4.5 stars can be tricky, and a clamber could turn into a death fall if you fell in the wrong place and was really unlucky. I have absolutely no issue with anyone using a backup belay for the tricky/dangerous part of 4.5 terrain caches, it's probably a clever thing to do. :oops:

As for difficulty I can only really speak for puzzles and not for nano hides in horrid places. For guidance look through my 120+ puzzles, from the feedback rating has never been an issue and there is some method to the madness depending on the types of way the coords are hidden and the number of layers of solution needed. Of course this has now set a trend in Adelaide and this might not match others rated caches elsewhere however if you solved all of them you'd have a pretty good idea on how to rate any sort of puzzle IMHO.
Interesting. I can relate to your terrain rating. It makes sense. How do you balance your system against a cache that requires a short swim and a duck dive, or one that requires a comfortable drive in a 4wd and a short walk?
Depending how you reckon it, there's nine or ten levels of terrain difficulty. Unless you want the middle levels to become superfluous, the top levels really should be reserved for "this could kill you" terrain.

Laighside Legends
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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by Laighside Legends » 10 October 11 10:38 pm

But then there are caches that if all goes well are just a comfortable drive in a 4WD but if something breaks and you aren't prepared it could kill you... :-k

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Re: Cache difficulty/terrain ratings

Post by belken » 10 October 11 10:42 pm

nutwood wrote:
Zytheran wrote:This has been noted before by others but I have a system for terrain rating at the high end of the scale.

4.0 You might get injured finding this but you will be able to self rescue. (Broken arms, wrists, trashed ankles, bad flesh wounds)
4.5 You might get seriously injured finding this and you will need a chopper out. (Broken legs, hips, back)
5.0 You will die finding this if you screw up and/or don't use proper safety equipment.

4.5 has been verified here http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx ... f8300abaef with a failed attempt on my Quadragon Query. The medical ground crew couldn't get there.

With this in mind there is grey area with 4.5 or 5 terrain. There are a couple of 5 stars I freeclimbed others wouldn't however I try to rate it for an average person, a not a thrill seeking lunatic. Even 4.5 stars can be tricky, and a clamber could turn into a death fall if you fell in the wrong place and was really unlucky. I have absolutely no issue with anyone using a backup belay for the tricky/dangerous part of 4.5 terrain caches, it's probably a clever thing to do. :oops:

As for difficulty I can only really speak for puzzles and not for nano hides in horrid places. For guidance look through my 120+ puzzles, from the feedback rating has never been an issue and there is some method to the madness depending on the types of way the coords are hidden and the number of layers of solution needed. Of course this has now set a trend in Adelaide and this might not match others rated caches elsewhere however if you solved all of them you'd have a pretty good idea on how to rate any sort of puzzle IMHO.
Interesting. I can relate to your terrain rating. It makes sense. How do you balance your system against a cache that requires a short swim and a duck dive, or one that requires a comfortable drive in a 4wd and a short walk?
Depending how you reckon it, there's nine or ten levels of terrain difficulty. Unless you want the middle levels to become superfluous, the top levels really should be reserved for "this could kill you" terrain.

You are wrong. Re read all posts umtil you get it.

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