Voting at GC Forum -- Counting Challenges as Finds

[pjmpjm]

I've just gone back over the past two days or so of voting (and comments) at the GC Forum and wonder how many of us are 'mantaining the rage' about counting Challenge Completions as actual Finds in the statistics.

As I see it, the problem really isn't with the new Challenges idea, but with counting Completion of them as Finds in the personal statistics.

If Challenges are kept entirely separate in the GC statistics, then geocachers who like them can complete them, and others can leave them alone. No problem and everyone is happy.

But if they're combined, even partly, as now, then our GC find totals will be diluted.

My question here is: are you all voting? Are you all making comments? And are you doing this in the GC Forum?

Remember that it's doubtful that anyone at GC reads our distant antipodes GCA Forum (great though it is) and we're not having an impact if we don't vote and comment at GC itself.

I've noted that, besides myself, blossom* and Cybermew3 have voted in the past two days. (Perhaps others voted earlier. I gave up on going back further in time.) But consistent comments, after voting with all three votes, should help -- and I don't see any Australian voices carrying on the discussion.

Please correct me if I'm wrong . . . Perhaps there are other GC Forum topics that I'm missing. But I'm referring to the 'hot' vote that's currently 'under review' by the GC management. We can have an impact here.

[McAdies]

Since there is no record for the amount of Geocaches you find we don't really care about them being added to your find count.
If they keep them added that's OK and if they keep them separate then that's cool too.

[Bunya]

I used three votes each yesterday on the requests to get the date back on logs and the removal of avatars.
They quickly put the date back but actioned the second topic only by reducing the size of the avatar. I promptly used three more votes on the new topic requesting removal of the avatar altogether.
I've now added three votes to the topic asking for the removal of challenges as finds.

[MtnLioness]

I have voted on a few topics but don't really know what to say per se

[pjmpjm]

I have voted on a few topics but don't really know what to say per se

I have no issues with the new GC Challenges per se. Those who like them can complete them and others can ignore them.

But I think adding 'completions' to total 'cache finds' will dilute the value of our finds.

That would be my suggested comment from Australians in that ongoing 'vote' at GC. Or you could just simply comment that you agree with the person who started the 'vote' thread. I think it's now the second 'hottest' topic at their forum.

[pjmpjm]

I used three votes each yesterday on the requests to get the date back on logs and the removal of avatars. They quickly put the date back but actioned the second topic only by reducing the size of the avatar. I promptly used three more votes on the new topic requesting removal of the avatar altogether. I've now added three votes to the topic asking for the removal of challenges as finds.

That's great. I've used up all my votes on the 'Should Challenges Count as Finds' topic, so am just leaving what I hope are constructive comments every day. I think it's important to be firm but very polite. Extreme criticism or too much negative emotion could hurt the cause. I'm sorry, but I missed your response the first time I went through the responses. There were so many that I just looked for the names of geocachers I knew.

The only other topic that concerned me was the amazing deletion of the date for logs, but they've fixed this now.

The other issues under consideration seem to be relatively minor.

But still, I've learned my lesson and will now visit the GC Forum more often. I hadn't even looked at it for more than a year, and had only participated in this (excellent) Forum at GCA.

[pjmpjm]

Since there is no record for the amount of Geocaches you find we don't really care about them being added to your find count. If they keep them added that's OK and if they keep them separate then that's cool too.

GC started using the combined statistic 'Found/Completed' on our profiles. I discovered this when I did a 'trial' Challenge. I would prefer these two statistics to be kept entirely separate. I have no issue with the new Challenges as such.

[mtbikeroz]

Having **HAD** to complete one particular challenge, my stats now has a combined find.
I may or may not complete more challenges, I'm ambivalent towards the combined/separate totals, I may take them or leave them, not really fussed either way. But if others want a way to increase their stats - good for them. If others don't like them and don't do them, good for them too.
I count in my profile my GC+GCA stats (including Trigs, the effort to get to some of them is worth 10 caches !!) together as a whole, some others don't chase Trigs - That's fine.

I don't see too much either way, if one does them, count them together - or not - or what if something new comes up in the future, stats will then look like - 55 caches, 23 challenges, 17 this, 12 that, 47 something else,......ad infinitum.....

My Summary - "whatever", "Huh", do em if you like em, .......

[fluffyfish]

I won't be voting as I don't really use the gc.com forum and don't care whether challenges are included in gc.com finds. I keep my own tally (combined GC+GCA+whatever cache I find) and I guess if I do a challenge worthy enough, then I would include it too. I include GCA locationless in my tally.

[budgietas]

I know I have voted recently on the forum, but I certainly did not leave a comment each time

[Rainbow Spirit]

I read GC forums on a regular basis, and I do comment sometimes, in fact I have commented on challenges in one thread. I will have a look at the voting on challenge counts.

[Yurt]

I admit to voting on the avatars and dates but not this one. I only read up on challenges recently and I didn't see the poll.
They do sound like some of our GCA locationless caches and we have enough of them here to keep us going.

I see the avatars have changed again to the "no avatar" avatar. Other guff like "premium member" is gone too. But the find count is also gone and that bit of info is crucial - DNFs by experienced cachers are far more valuable in terms of information than DNFs by noobs.

[caughtatwork]

<snip> But the find count is also gone and that bit of info is crucial - DNFs by experienced cachers are far more valuable in terms of information than DNFs by noobs.

I'm going to hazard a guess that the poor performance over the last couple of days is (in part) due to the challenge counters.

While I can't say 100%, I'm guessing that there are two separate sets of tables. One for caches and one for challenges. Joining those two together to get the combined count is causing the poor performance. So in order to alleviate the performance issue, they have (temporarily) dropped the cacher counts from the logs. I would anticipate they will return, either as a separate count or even combined once they sort the backed data access out.

I doubt this is a permanent change.

The removal of the avatars to the same picture and status (e.g. Premium Cacher) all seems to be tied to gathering data from the database, so all seems to be related. It's good to see that they are looking into the issue and by removing this data from the logs, it's keeps the site up and running and only causes minimum disruption.

Would be nice to have a post letting us know what is going on, but it's the middle of the night there (I think) so maybe they only have a skeleton staff to look into this.

[gmj3191]

I see the avatars have changed again to the "no avatar" avatar. Other guff like "premium member" is gone too. But the find count is also gone and that bit of info is crucial - DNFs by experienced cachers are far more valuable in terms of information than DNFs by noobs.

Lots of unplanned changes and reactions to impacts.
The site was going pretty well, and then someone showed some initiative ... it's a bit like most software products.
They reach an apex of functionality and usability, and then evolve into complicated dinosaurs as the support staff get an itch to introduce more stuff which no-one really needs or wants.
MS Word is another good example.

[gmj3191]

Interesting, lets hope they get the message.