Minimalist Cache Logs -- Opinions Wanted

[Tuena]

I don't think we can have any influence over what people write in their logs. We could add a sentence at the end of the description asking that they write something more than just TFTC however they may not see that or take any notice. Tried that once.

When I get an email notification with the abbreviations TFTC or TNLNSL as the log I form much the same opinion as Team Hurtle. I also consider that the cacher probably isn't much interested in the activity & will lose interest soon.

As to myself, it depends on the type of cache I've found (or not) & the journey as to how much I write. Locationless & moveables tend to get fewer words or the words required to qualify. Occasionally I reread my logs as a reminder of that day, where I was etc so my logs are like an entry in a ship's log.

[d.d.dudes]

.......your name came before i started caching in 2006 and rings both north and south....don't take the minority side ..........".......they know not what they do"......ha [/b]

I do not enjoy reading the short or non existent logs some cachers leave on my caches, I would like some feedback on my placement, containers etc...

... few lines at least, if only to show appreciation for the time and effort that went into creating the hide.

...We the hiders will just have to put up with it or get out of the game entirely.

Agreed!!


Some of my caches take weeks to construct (those that have found dak,fatso or HHOA will know the type of caches I create). I'm afraid a blank log or TFTC or find xx of xxx for the day just doesnt cut it with me.

There has often been comment about the falling quality of caches....perhaps it the falling quality of logs which has some bearing. I mean to say....I can spend weeks creating/welding a cache and get a blank log....or I can place an eclipse tin and get the same log. Why bother creating something different/special?

All a hider gets for their supporting the game is a log.....is a decent log to much to ask for?

If this trend continues I will be take the "get out of the game" option. Actually I'm already heading down that path....three blank/tftc/find xx of xxx for the day logs and the cache is gone. Good thing I'm moving to a bigger block, for I couldnt bear to destroy my caches...I guess I'll have a gallery in the back garden ...an emu, a wombat, R2D2, the black knight, possums, a little tart, etc etc etc all taking pride of place.

[Browngang]

Heeeeeeeelp.
I've just been struck by the minimalist cache logger. Never thought too much about it, I've been guilty of it myself before reading this thread quite a while back. And that was when I had 180 or 190 to log, from one weekend.
I have a series that takes people through a state forest and up to a peak at about 550m with views to die for. There is 10 traditionals with quite a unique way of getting all the decimal digits for the puzzle cache up the top.
Last night I had 9 cut and pastes of 1 sentence. Then another member of the same family cut and pasted, wait for it, . Not even the wink from the smilie list, just the semi colon and one bracket.
The old wink hey.
Nothing else.
I felt like poking out the other eye!

[bikerbuddy]

I'd like to relate a totally different experience from the posts so far. Like many people I bring my background and interests to geocaching. I'm an English teacher, and it may not surprise some that I love books and some of the theory behind literature. As a result, one of my main joys in geocaching has been writing logs. They are always written uniquely for every cache I find. Most are short but would not offend the sensibilities expressed in this forum. Sometimes I try to tell a story. Occasionally I like to tell bizarre stories, although they usually maintain a basic truth of the geocaching experience. Occasionally I reflect upon issues or ideas that the experience of finding the cache has raised in my mind. Therefore they are not a literal story of my physical journey, but an intellectual reflection on my caching experience and the reasons the cache owner has placed the cache. This is my interest in the game.

However, I have recently had twelve of my logs deleted. Ironically, most of the logs had been reflections on the freedom of speech in western society. The last two logs were reflections on the importance of geocaching to me and my own unique, if quirky way of understanding the experience through literary theory. The logs were polite and praising. One log gave a favourite.

Before my logs were deleted I was rung by one of the cache owners and was subjected to verbal abuse for about 15 minutes. I was told my logs were too long, that they were 'crap', that they "show the kind of person you are" and that the cache owner didn't enjoy reading them. I was told that only logs that said I had found the cache would be accepted. In other words, tantamount to "TFTC". I tried to point out that I had a right to interpret my geocaching experience in my own way, and that the cache owner didn't have to read my logs. The vitriol continued. I ended the conversation politely.

Anyway, the logs were deleted. I have copies of the last three logs in the series if anyone would like to see what raised the ire of this cacher. I don't know the URLs for the other nine deleted logs. I haven't relogged them. The whole incident has soured geocaching for me and at the moment I don't feel like continuing. Those close to me are trying to persuade me against this, but if this is where geocaching is heading, what is the point?

[Happy Chappies]

I'd like to relate a totally different experience from the posts so far. Like many people I bring my background and interests to geocaching. I'm an English teacher, and it may not surprise some that I love books and some of the theory behind literature. As a result, one of my main joys in geocaching has been writing logs. They are always written uniquely for every cache I find. Most are short but would not offend the sensibilities expressed in this forum. Sometimes I try to tell a story. Occasionally I like to tell bizarre stories, although they usually maintain a basic truth of the geocaching experience. Occasionally I reflect upon issues or ideas that the experience of finding the cache has raised in my mind. Therefore they are not a literal story of my physical journey, but an intellectual reflection on my caching experience and the reasons the cache owner has placed the cache. This is my interest in the game.

However, I have recently had twelve of my logs deleted. Ironically, most of the logs had been reflections on the freedom of speech in western society. The last two logs were reflections on the importance of geocaching to me and my own unique, if quirky way of understanding the experience through literary theory. The logs were polite and praising. One log gave a favourite.

Before my logs were deleted I was rung by one of the cache owners and was subjected to verbal abuse for about 15 minutes. I was told my logs were too long, that they were 'crap', that they "show the kind of person you are" and that the cache owner didn't enjoy reading them. I was told that only logs that said I had found the cache would be accepted. In other words, tantamount to "TFTC". I tried to point out that I had a right to interpret my geocaching experience in my own way, and that the cache owner didn't have to read my logs. The vitriol continued. I ended the conversation politely.

Anyway, the logs were deleted. I have copies of the last three logs in the series if anyone would like to see what raised the ire of this cacher. I don't know the URLs for the other nine deleted logs. I haven't relogged them. The whole incident has soured geocaching for me and at the moment I don't feel like continuing. Those close to me are trying to persuade me against this, but if this is where geocaching is heading, what is the point?

Wow - That CO sounds like quite a numbskull. I'd LOVE to have more logs like yours based on what you've said here, and always try and write well/much myself... How bizarre that they would go to the extent of bothering to contact you and abuse you for writing too much. Quite awful, especially when it takes no effort not to read them. I've heard some people whinge about logs like mine saying "I don't want to hear all about their kid's birthday party they went to that day, or some weird story" - but logs just aren't for the owner, they are for everybody, including me - and I write them as much as a record of my own adventures as anything else.....

If someone doesn't like that, well, boo-hoo. But in the end they cannot delete your log if you found the cache. It's against the rules. Get in touch with your friendly neighbourhood reviewer and ask for your log to be reinstated. You've got the high ground on this one.

[SamCarter]

That seems a bit inappropriate on the part of the cache owner. There was certainly nothing offensive about those logs (you can find them here: http://geocaching.com.au/logs/cacher/bikerbuddy ). They were whimsical, thought-provoking (if you were prepared to make the intellectual effort to engage (ahhhh, this might explain the problem!), and certainly more interesting than some of the shorter logs that remain), and, in at least one case, indicate that there was a FTF earned.

Does a groundspeak expert know if there is recourse here, because if a CO can delete logs willy-nilly on the grounds that they "didn't enjoy reading them" then the game loses a non-trivial part of its fun?

[pjmpjm]

I'd like to relate a totally different experience from the posts so far . . . Anyway, the logs were deleted. I have copies of the last three logs in the series if anyone would like to see what raised the ire of this cacher. I don't know the URLs for the other nine deleted logs. I haven't relogged them. The whole incident has soured geocaching for me and at the moment I don't feel like continuing. Those close to me are trying to persuade me against this, but if this is where geocaching is heading, what is the point?

That sure does sound like an extreme case, bb. From the fairly substantial feedback received in the GCA Forum since I began this thread, nearly 100% of COs like lots of feedback in their cache logs.

However, in any group there are always significant exceptions, and of course people who just 'got out of bed on the wrong side' that particular day. (And there could be other reasons for temporary bad temper or even insanity!)

As you know, I've been inclined to write the occasional fairly long log entry in my day -- being an ex English teacher myself -- but fortunately I've never got such a reaction from a cache owner -- as far as I know. If I had, I guess I'd be thinking like you.

My own opinion is that many current newbies are leaving Eclipse tins and smaller, and entering logs on iPhones, etc., and this has changed the old-fashioned 'find an ammo can 5km off the fire trail in the Jamison Valley' scenario that led to better quality logs.

Anyhow, five 'thumbs up' from yours truly regarding your ever-interesting logs . . .

[pjmpjm]

Does a groundspeak expert know if there is recourse here, because if a CO can delete logs willy-nilly on the grounds that they "didn't enjoy reading them" then the game loses a non-trivial part of its fun?

Yes, I'd be interested in the answer to this question too.

[pjmpjm]

Get in touch with your friendly neighbourhood reviewer and ask for your log to be reinstated. You've got the high ground on this one.

My thought as well . . .

[jonnosan+2]

I'm not sure appealing to the umpire is going to lead to much happiness. I am sure you can get the logs reinstated but will that really bring back the warm fuzzy feeling?

My suggestion would actually be to look for a cache that is literally (to quote pjmpjm) "5km off a fire trail in the Jamison " Specifically, "point of no regard" - getting (close) to that spot was my favorite geocaching experience ever, even though I DNFed (partly so I could have a reason to go back one day). With those sort of caches, you will have memories that last forever, regardless of how long your write up on the cache page lasts.

Go on, I dare you

[bikerbuddy]

In regards to the question about finding recourse with a reviewer, I doubt it. The cache owner in question first contacted Groundspeak and sought permission to delete the logs for the R, U and S caches. Groundspeak granted this permission without ever contacting me at all. This is from the email I received:

It has been brought to our attention that you have been posting inappropriate content in recent cache logs. These logs are considered discussion points and are not appropriate content for a cache log.

I have instructed the cache owners to delete these logs and allow you re-log them under the exception that you stop using discussion points as your postings. If you wish to discuss issues about Geocaching.com, please refer to our Forums both in the Off Topic thread and the General Geocaching Questions thread ....

.... You are welcome to re-post these logs. Please note that if you do not follow these guidelines for cache logs the cache owners will contact us directly and we will take further action.

After they received permission to delete these three caches, they deleted my logs en mass.

In fairness to the people who post on this forum, I will say that this cache owner does not like me for personal reasons I can guess at, but could not conclusively prove. Naturally I have been shocked that Groundspeak supported this action, apart from the shock at the treatment I have received.
I have written Groundspeak a long response outlining the history behind this, the motivations, as best I understand them to be, of the cache owner, and the personal abuse I have received on more than one occasion, despite trying to placate and mollify. This is a complicated personal situation, but my point is a simple one: I believe I have a right to log a cache and reflect upon my experience in a way that is relevant to me. I also believe that logs are not just for the cache owners. They are part of my experience of geocaching.

[Happy Chappies]

I'd almost be inclined to believe that Groundspeak hasn't even looked at your logs properly.... I can see the issue with 'discussion points' in some instances (such as when people go on in the logs (usually by logging notes) to critique or discuss the merits of a particular cache - Just see 'Bifrost'!) - But your logs are hardly discussion points. - For a start, it takes two people to have a discussion!

Good luck with getting them reinstated. Sure, it won't make you feel as happy as you might have if this had never happened, but the CO needs to learn that you don't delete a log just because you don't like the style and/or the writer.

[Big Matt and Shell]

EDIT: Sorry I opened the forum at morning tea and only just got around to responding now. I see lots more posts have been made.

Please remember reviewers review caches we are not the log police. You need to go to contact@geocaching.com for log matters

[juc_cacher]

In fairness to the people who post on this forum, I will say that this cache owner does not like me for personal reasons I can guess at, but could not conclusively prove. Naturally I have been shocked that Groundspeak supported this action, apart from the shock at the treatment I have received.
I have written Groundspeak a long response outlining the history behind this, the motivations, as best I understand them to be, of the cache owner, and the personal abuse I have received on more than one occasion, despite trying to placate and mollify. This is a complicated personal situation, but my point is a simple one: I believe I have a right to log a cache and reflect upon my experience in a way that is relevant to me. I also believe that logs are not just for the cache owners. They are part of my experience of geocaching.

Ringing and abusing you is pretty off, as is deleting logs which don't match their idea of appropriate.

Given there are larger issues at play here by the sound of it, if I was in that situation, I'd just ignore this guys caches...as long as I could live with the unfound icons on the map

[canary]

In fairness to the people who post on this forum, I will say that this cache owner does not like me for personal reasons I can guess at, but could not conclusively prove. Naturally I have been shocked that Groundspeak supported this action, apart from the shock at the treatment I have received.
I have written Groundspeak a long response outlining the history behind this, the motivations, as best I understand them to be, of the cache owner, and the personal abuse I have received on more than one occasion, despite trying to placate and mollify. This is a complicated personal situation, but my point is a simple one: I believe I have a right to log a cache and reflect upon my experience in a way that is relevant to me. I also believe that logs are not just for the cache owners. They are part of my experience of geocaching.

Ringing and abusing you is pretty off, as is deleting logs which don't match their idea of appropriate.

Given there are larger issues at play here by the sound of it, if I was in that situation, I'd just ignore this guys caches...as long as I could live with the unfound icons on the map

I would like to support the logs as neither inappropriate or offensive.

It is shame that at the moment in western sydney, too many people are telling other people when, where and how others should hide, cache and log.

But, I could have Unfound Caches on my screen! And they are a great series.