pjmpjm wrote:SamCarter wrote: Good grief. There REALLY IS a place called Clwydd. I thought it was a made up gnomey place. All the other states are totally Clwyddless. Even Wales itself is totally Clwyddless (although it does have a Clwyd county, which is clearly only half the place Clwydd is, despite the fact that the Welsh Clwyd contains the wonderfully named town of Yr Wyddgrug otherwise known as Mold)
This could bring us back again to the excellent topic of 'how to pronounce Clwydd.' Always lots of fun.
(Remember that the second 'D' is always silent, hence the spelling in Wales. And we always roll our Ws.)
But do the Clwyddians pronounce it as the Welsh would? I thought the w was an "oo" as in good (the glacial term "cwm", so useful for Scrabble, is Welsh), so I'm not entirely sure how to "roll" that! The y is more a short i. This is confirmed by Wikipedia, which gives the pronunication of Clwyd (one d) in Wales as -- very roughly, based on my interpretation of the phonetics -- "klooid" (rhyming with "fluid").
The double d is where we might run into difficulties. In Welsh, the double d is essentially "th" (meaning the second "d" would NOT be silent, but that the double letter is a single consonant). For example, the mountain known to the English as Snowdon is Yr Wyddfa ("ihr withva", roughly). So the Welsh would, I guess, pronounce Clwydd as "klooith".
Wikipedia lets me down completely on the Australian pronunciation of Clwydd (and even fails to give ANY information about such a gnome haven (trying to get back on topic, sort of!)).
So, how DO the Clwyddians pronounce Clwydd?
NB Please take my explanations of Welsh with several large grains of salt. I am not a native speaker; I barely know any words; the only thing I can claim is that my grandfather was a Morgan (and this makes no useful contribution to this particular situation anyway!). I travelled around Wales for a week 20 years ago, and was proud of being able to say the "ll" sound ... until I got on a bus and attempted show off. I asked to go to Llandudno, which I pronounced "LlandUdno" (nice gutteral Ll (sort of a khl without much k, and a short u as in up), and the driver looked at me in disdain
and said "Llandoodno". Not the remotest hint of a compliment for my awesomely impressive Ll; mountains of manure cast upon me with a look just for messing up the vowel. ]