Language in Forum

[macandrita]

Hi All,

I am sorry to say that I am appalled with the language used by a moderator in the topic Interesting idea with cache potential. I don't know what triggered the outburst and frankly I don't care. As a moderator we mere cachers look to you for guidance and expect you to conduct yourselves in an ethical manner as you do us. Further, you have then locked the topic excluding any further comment. I hope you are dealt with forwith but not before you man up enough to apologise.

[Richary]

I rather suspect that person has left the game due to harrasment by others in any case as all their caches are now archived as of today. Which is a shame for someone who has been in it for so long.

[MtnLioness]

Well, with people ranting and making outlandish remarks of late from all sides, I don't really blame him, however, I AGREE that that kind of behavior is totally unacceptable!

I think there is a lot of hormones and tempers flying around this whole country at the moment so I think EVERYONE needs to hold their opinions, words and thoughts to themselves unless they are wholesome and constructive to the community as a whole!
No-one needs to extract things out of context from peoples posts and make themselves a victim, no-one needs to get all offended off a general post and EVERYONE needs to grow a thicker skin because we ALL know that forums and the text therein don't contain the finer nuances and body language that we glean from person-to-person contact and interaction!
Everyone CHILL!!!!!

[zactyl]

I've only managed two days of caching this year, as life has seriously gotten in the way of all free time, but I came to the forum to find out why some of the Mix caches on my watchlist were archived. I'm upset that Mix has quit, I've only had a small amount of contact with him but I liked him. I'm not so sensitive that the language disturbed me, and find the opening post and supporting posts in this thread in response to Mix's very mild swearing far more disturbing.

[CraigRat]

Hi All,

I am sorry to say that I am appalled with the language used by a moderator in the topic Interesting idea with cache potential. I don't know what triggered the outburst and frankly I don't care. As a moderator we mere cachers look to you for guidance and expect you to conduct yourselves in an ethical manner as you do us. Further, you have then locked the topic excluding any further comment. I hope you are dealt with forwith but not before you man up enough to apologise.

Just after that post, Mix stood down as a moderator.

Normal operation has resumed, the trolls have won and we lose yet another member of the community because of it.

We'll be looking for another NSW mod in the near future.

[Team Wibble]

I think there is a lot of hormones and tempers flying around this whole country at the moment so I think EVERYONE needs to hold their opinions, words and thoughts to themselves unless they are wholesome and constructive to the community as a whole!

I both agree and disagree. I think it's unfair to use the term "a lot of hormones" flying around - tempers, fine, but nothing annoys me more than blaming a difference of opinion on hormones.

I also agree and disagree that everyone needs to hold their opinions unless they are wholesome and constructive - I think you could interpret those terms in two ways. No one should feel that they're not allowed to voice their opinion, as long as they are using reasoned arguments, keep things rational, anddon't make personal attacks. No one should be told that they're not allowed to have a dissenting opinion or express concern, or even annoyance at an issue, lest they be labled "hormonal", "grumpy", "offended", "too negative" etc.

I agree it's often too much to expect in a forum that people stay rational (though I live in perennial hope), but I don't think it's appropriate to censor opinions and only allow discussion on happy, "we love everything" topics. Again, as long as these discussions are rational and objective.

I saw the post from the Moderator and while the language didn't offend me, it certainly surprised me and at first I could not figure out what on earth triggered it. I then had to "un-ignore" a post, look into the history of a cache mentioned in the post and although I still don't know the whole story, I am not surprised at the reaction. There is a reason why I've had to finally use the ignore function.

I agree with Craigrat. Once again, the Trolls have won, and MtnLioness, I don't think most of the people you're alluding to are the trolls in this instance. While there's been some negativity, and some argument on the forums lately (which I think is completely fine, IMO, because it hasn't been innapropriate), there have been repeated instances of trolling and it is THAT which really disappoints me because not only is it negative, poorly written and irrational, it's also downright threatening and offensive.

And I'm really disappointed that a moderator, whom I've never met, but have always enjoyed their posts and videos, has stepped down because of what I see (from my distant viewpoint) as straight-out baiting and harassment.

[covert]

I agree with Craigrat. Once again, the Trolls have won, and MtnLioness, I don't think most of the people you're alluding to are the trolls in this instance. While there's been some negativity, and some argument on the forums lately (which I think is completely fine, IMO, because it hasn't been innapropriate), there have been repeated instances of trolling and it is THAT which really disappoints me because not only is it negative, poorly written and irrational, it's also downright threatening and offensive.

And I'm really disappointed that a moderator, whom I've never met, but have always enjoyed their posts and videos, has stepped down because of what I see (from my distant viewpoint) as straight-out baiting and harassment.

I support these thoughts exactly.

The language used by the mod did not offend me. At first it shocked me, I did not have time to work out the cause. This morning I looked over a few of the archived caches and logs and the reason becomes very clear. I know understand the reason for the outburst and think the use of the language was understandable.

[Team Wibble]

no-one needs to get all offended off a general post

Something I forgot to add, which I think is very important here.
If someone makes a general statement in a public forum, and someone disagrees or even considers it a point of discussion, responding with a counter-argument (again, rationally, objectively), please, please, please STOP implying that they are "offended".

This is called a discussion, debate, or even an argument. Not all arguments are bad. If all these situations resulted in people being labelled offended, there would be no debating clubs, no enthusiastic discussion. Someone can disagree with a statement, or simply want to give another opinion on the matter, and offense has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[pprass]

...This is called a discussion, debate, or even an argument. Not all arguments are bad.

It is sad that there are some people that want to shut down discussions for the sake of harmony, avoid regulation or because according to them it is a "gripe" or a "whinge" or it looks like "the cache police" are patroling again!
Let us hope that these people don't wonder what happened to this great game in a few years time!

[Big Matt and Shell]

...This is called a discussion, debate, or even an argument. Not all arguments are bad.

It is sad that there are some people that want to shut down discussions for the sake of harmony, avoid regulation or because according to them it is a "gripe" or a "whinge" or it looks like "the cache police" are patroling again!
Let us hope that these people don't wonder what happened to this great game in a few years time!

I don't think people want to shut down discussion Peter & Claire. I for one certainly do not but it is frustrating to see post after post complaining of something with no constuctive suggestions as to how to change the activity. Last week I suggested people get out and find a cache in desparation to try and lift the mood I see now by the latest thread that that was not taken as intended.

It really is a shame to see Mix go, the local area around Newcastle is much poorer for it. I can understand his reasons and we see too many stabby comments. For crying out loud we even have a stabby emoticon. As someone posted recently we even seem to foster it here if it is related to GC.com.

As to language in forums I'm not really shocked by it. I think the response was probably made out of frustration. Lets face it most people here probably hear worse every day. As to it being from a moderator, would it be any better from a normal member?

[pprass]

... but it is frustrating to see post after post complaining of something with no constuctive suggestions as to how to change the activity...

Matt if that does occur, or you read it as such then that is a fair comment, but I am struggling to recall any recent threads where there was an aimless statement just for the sake of complaining. I saw (and started) some posts that highlighted what is thought to be right and wrong with the current game; a post on cache size (which after some blasting actually resulted in a solution - who owuld have thought that could happen!); a thread on cache maintenance etc. All of which were meant to create discussion and thankfully there were some newer cachers that actually were appreciative and said that they were now more aware of what is going on.
Some others say that this has all been previously discussed and what is the point of bringing it all up again - well I for one don't want to just bury my head in the sand and say - "what will be will be". I like this game too much to have that happen.

Anyway - I realise that this is not sticking to the original post - so sorry I won't comment on this thread again unless it is on topic.

[caughtatwork]

There has only been one use of that word in the public forums since the site started, so given the discussions sometimes I'm a little bit surprised, but pleased.

As has been mentioned Mix has departed the Mod scene and it appears he has also departed the Geocaching Australia and likely the entire geocaching scene altogether.

In terms of the reason that this situation came about, it has been difficult from a mod and admin perspective. If we allow all sorts of trolling and other comments directed at other posters we get accused of not moding, but on the other hand if we step in ask that comments like that not be directed at other posters we get accused of censorship and jack-booted thuggery.

The life of a moderator is not an easy one with the line between asking people to take a breath and being accused of trying to shut down commentary is very grey and what one person thinks is reasonable another person thinks in treasonable.

Continued poking of the moderators and other posters also gets on people's goats and sometimes they make a decision in a moment of blood. We don't want this forum to become a snark pit but on the other hand we don't always want everyone to agree and think that everything is sunshine and lollipops.

Most of us are grown ups here and of course the written word does not always convey the complete meaning, so the moderators will continue to moderate as they see the situation and we hope that you understand the meaning of some moderation and not necessarily the specific actions in play at the time.

An action has been put in place to try to avoid the situation that caused the original issue and this thread to be created, but only time will tell if it turns out to be successful.

[pprass]

... If we allow all sorts of trolling and other comments directed at other posters we get accused of not moding...

I couldn't see what happened to set Mix off, so if I think what happened actually did happen - then gee I wish Mix could have put an "ignore" on that person! We still could be looking forward to do his caches and some of the puzzles I have solved would not be wasted.

[caughtatwork]

There were a number of things that accumulated over time, then there was the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. It's probably best not to highlight the events in a step-by-step timeline. That would satisfy some and annoy others.

We had seen the behaviour that caused the action demonstrated in the past and we took some action that we hoped would modify that behaviour. It seemed to work for a little while, but the behaviour has returned so the preventative action has now moved to defcon2.

Regrettably, until the latest fracas actually happened, we couldn't foresee the consequence.

It is worth noting (I think) that sometimes what some people write is not how it is interpreted by others and the accumulation of these perceived negative posts drive some people away. Remember you cannot change other peoples perception. Their perception is their reality. So what they read and see is not what you read and see. While I'm not saying we all need to be love and buttercups, we should be aware that the accumulation of perceived negative posts can seen in a greater context by some, who then choose to retire from the site, either quietly or in a loud bang.

None of us are perfect and sometimes emotions cloud our judgement, but I hope that our latest actions can avoid some of this conflict.

[macandrita]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
As the starter of this thread I would like to comment further. Having checked the guidlines I find that the forum is intended as a 13+ age group although the guidelines are fairly flexable. I would like to think that it was also ment to be family friendly or perhaps not family unfriendly. There are no classifications and it is freely viewable by the general public. We are trying to promote our sport as family friendly and I know that when we first started one of the areas we explored was the forums. There are plenty of ways to express displeasure without using obsenities. No good comes from spraying the whole community with your rage when it has been caused by so few. Don't get me wrong. I have been know to turn the air black and blue when warranted but never in front of people likely to be offended by it. My policy is "If I would not say it in front of my grandparents then I would not write it in a public forum". I feel the thread did a bit of a tangent looking at cause and effect but my only beef has been the use of what I and I suspect many others consider an obsenity in written form in this forum. To the Trolls out there, you need to revisit the guideline that says "Don't be a jerk". Thank you for reading and let's get back to caching.