Open Caching

[Zalgariath]

Yeah I had a bitch on the Blog...

You'd have thought you'd know, like research stuff, before shooting your mouth off on the interwebs

I "uploaded" one of my caches to opencaching.com last night, just to see how it works. Very easy... It seems every cache starts at "3 Star" then must get modded by user input from there. You natuarlly get to set the D/T and size but everything (even size!) I believe is modded on user feedback.

I like that rating system but as people have said, in the long run thanks to the law of averages it will probably tend to mean most caches will end up with middle of the road ratings on balance.

[CraigRat]

Yeah I had a bitch on the Blog...

You'd have thought you'd know, like research stuff, before shooting your mouth off on the interwebs

My post got nuked.
My post admittedly was inflammatory, and it's his blog, and his right to nuke it. HOwever this is the internet and I made sure I posted it in blogs that pointed to his story

Perhaps I shouldn't have called him deluded:

Don’t you realise Groundspeak are in no position to call themselves the ‘Official’ site given they neither invented the game, the concept or even the name.
Check your history.
I see nowhere on the OX site that claim it to be the official site.
As a dev on one of these sites that’s obviously ‘shady’ and trying to ‘rip off’ GC ‘concept’ I can tell you you are DELUDED if you think GC are in it for anything but making a buck off the game. There is VERY minimal community engagement around rules and decision on what cache types should and should not exist.
We DON’T have to be grateful to GC, they should be grateful to US for providing the content and the volunteers who create and curate the data they then SELL.
As for review of caches: Just think: Virtually every crappy LPC, Power Trail and one line bad grammar cache listing was approved and thereby endorsed by Groundspeak. Just great hey, that’s the quality approval system for ya!
Censoring the discussions of any alternative forms of Geocaching and trackables that don’t generate revenue for Groundspeak is hardly community minded is it???
If you think Groundspeak are anything more than a revenue generating machine off the works of others then you, my dear friend, are seriously wrong.
The Free and Open way of geocaching has well and truly got traction brother, and you’ll be the one missing out.

Yes, there's holes in some of my arguments, but the 'We should be grateful to GC' comments he made just stuck in my craw, and I don't even know what a craw is.

People forget the history of the game as GC conveniently obfuscate it on their site. Those who know not seem to give them undue credit for the concepts that underpin their site.There's hardly a thing there that didn't exist on another site previously. Interactive Maps, Hitchikers, Downloadable GPX's, t/d ratings etc all came from external sources.

I wasn't even around at this time yet I've made myself aware of the history of the game and it worries me that some of the details are gradually disappearing in the mist.

I don't really care for what OX are doing, but I'll defend their right to exist, especially when ignorant people claim it's copying or stealing GC's concepts.

[Cached]

Our wiki represents the story quite well, doesn't it? [goes off to check]

[Happy Chappies]

snip

If you think Groundspeak are anything more than a revenue generating machine off the works of others then you, my dear friend, are seriously wrong.
The Free and Open way of geocaching has well and truly got traction brother, and you’ll be the one missing out.

more snip

I don't really care for what OX are doing, but I'll defend their right to exist, especially when ignorant people claim it's copying or stealing GC's concepts.

But couldn't one also argue that OX are inevitably a revenue generating machine, albeit in a different manner? I can't believe that Garmin would be in this if not for some profit motive - even if it is just marketing and consumer research.

Of course that's just another validation of GCA (until the hard workers behind the scenes start mysteriously appearing on the trails with the newest Magellans)!

[gmj3191]

I don't know why there is so much cynicism about somebody providing facilities and a service, and being able to be paid for it.
Everyone has to be make a living.

It's not as though we're being ripped off by GC.com. I get much more fun and enjoyment for my $35 pa or whatever it is than I get for most other things I buy which cost that much.

[CraigRat]

But couldn't one also argue that OX are inevitably a revenue generating machine, albeit in a different manner? I can't believe that Garmin would be in this if not for some profit motive - even if it is just marketing and consumer research.

Absolutely, I don't think they are doing the site for anything but their own interests. It's odd for a multinational to put something out there out of pure altruism

[Zalgariath]

But couldn't one also argue that OX are inevitably a revenue generating machine, albeit in a different manner? I can't believe that Garmin would be in this if not for some profit motive - even if it is just marketing and consumer research.

Of course that's just another validation of GCA (until the hard workers behind the scenes start mysteriously appearing on the trails with the newest Magellans)!

I dont think opencaching.com counts in this reference...(talking about the open caching networks already in place oc.org's) as while (for the moment) there is no membership fee they definately have an agenda, to sell Garmins.

I don't know why there is so much cynicism about somebody providing facilities and a service, and being able to be paid for it. Everyone has to be make a living.

It's not as though we're being ripped off by GC.com. I get much more fun and enjoyment for my $35 pa or whatever it is than I get for most other things I buy which cost that much.

I got no problems paying for Premium Service from GS as honestly for me it isnt that much and obviously without a cash flow the site would not exist, but I look at it this way... If there are 500,000 Premium members (a random guess) That is around $15 Million dollars income JUST from members... add TB sales and advertising on the site and thats a lot of bickies. They dont pay their reviewers who handle 90% of the crap and do most of the work. They are poor to very poor in responding to community feedback, (things which take CR and C@W 1 day to fix or implement get ummed and arrred over for months) and then after you have supported them through your membership still put limits on things like having only 5 PQ's a day to save a few cents per person (if that) on site traffic

Granted the volumes of traffic and the user base they service are massive compared to here, but then again so is the income. Im not saying GC.com is a bad thing... I get literally daily enjoyment from it! It just could be so much better... the irony is we pay the fees there... and get the Premium Member Services here

[caughtatwork]

180,000 premium members = $5.4M USD a year.

[Zalgariath]

180,000 premium members = $5.4M USD a year.

Oh is that all? My guesstimation was way out... I would have thought there was a higher uptake then that

[CraigRat]

180,000 premium members = $5.4M USD a year.

Oh is that all? My guesstimation was way out... I would have thought there was a higher uptake then that

Thats PM income alone, and remeber thats Per Annum, and doesnt take in to account Ads, Trackables, Merchandise licensing, commercial relationships etc, which would ad a few more mil.
Not bad money it you can get it, especially when you don't make the product yourself, and people work for you for free.

[gmj3191]

They would have some paid employees, and large network, accommodation and server costs I'd imagine.
But all that aside, the initiative to see a void and fill it takes imagination and entrepreneurial skills, which seem to be being rewarded.

They do seem to be slow to introduce changes, but part of that comes with the responsibility for managing a large system with so many users.
I think I'd prefer to see slow change but a high grade of reliability.

I'm sure they had some lean times in the beginning when caching was in it's infancy. I can see a parallel with a friend of mine who wrote a system in his spare time while working as a contractor for somebody else. When he went full time with it, he had to mortgage his house and went close to folding on a number of occasions, and his wife was close to the edge with worry.
Now he employs 20 people and is doing well, I certainly think he deserves the success because I saw the early days of effort.

I think there are many far worse examples of overcharging and ripping off, or poor service, going on than what we see from GC.com.

[mtbikeroz]

Interesting experience.

I tried to register my name, only to get what several people mentioned earlier that the name I chose was already used. (Now who else would use mtbikeroz?, apparently quite a few, and with some numbers tacked on too). I chose somethin else in the interim.

OK, off I shot an email to their help people, got a reply back within 3 days, "....it appears the mtbikeroz was fraudently created, we have deleted that account and given you the name you are/wanted......". (I also mentioned my 4000+ finds and explained I had tried to import these finds in with MY generated GC pocket Query etc etc, they were very kind, whoever they are in Garmin ....)

4000+ of my finds have now indeed been imported, seems about 51 (inc since 22 Dec) haven't made it in.....