Garmin Chirp

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gmj3191
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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by gmj3191 » 05 November 10 12:27 pm

nibbler wrote:I cant help feeling that this another way to get $$$ out of cachers. Its probably just me but I cant see the point of the Chirp :-k
Some of us just love change, new technology, the thrill of doing something new and different.
Others are content to remain static.

vive la différence!

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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by covert » 05 November 10 2:52 pm

gmj3191 wrote:I have just reactivated the Monument To Safety cache as a multi with the option to do the equation or use the CHIRP to find the final location.
It is still listed as a Trad but I've asked TheUmp to kindly change it to a multi.
Hopefully it will now be more muggle resistant than it was in its previous configuration.
Might needs to ask the ump again. GC1GZYW is still showing up as a trad.

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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by darth trader » 05 November 10 3:11 pm

new Garmin FAQ about the chirp (I found in a tweet)
YES. A CHIRP TWEET!

http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/chirp

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Happy Chappies
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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by Happy Chappies » 05 November 10 3:15 pm

darth trader wrote:new Garmin FAQ about the chirp (I found in a tweet)
YES. A CHIRP TWEET!

http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/chirp
Interesting that this one alludes to a potential iphone app to pick up chirp signals - I wondered how long that would take (although it seems to require the use of some specific dongle - more $$)... Would help broaden the audience a bit more without needing the specific Garmin branded stuff.

'dongle'.... i love that word. 8)

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gmj3191
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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by gmj3191 » 05 November 10 4:15 pm

Happy Chappies wrote:
darth trader wrote:new Garmin FAQ about the chirp (I found in a tweet)
YES. A CHIRP TWEET!

http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/chirp
Interesting that this one alludes to a potential iphone app to pick up chirp signals - I wondered how long that would take (although it seems to require the use of some specific dongle - more $$)... Would help broaden the audience a bit more without needing the specific Garmin branded stuff.

'dongle'.... i love that word. 8)
It will also be interesting to see how Magellan responds to this. Having just brought out their GC model specifically for caching, it will probably be a long time before they can respond and they'll be a generation behind for quite a while. They seem a bit cheaper however.

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Rigger64
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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by Rigger64 » 05 November 10 9:43 pm

Has any one got the Full Spec's For the Chirp devise I.e. Mainly the frequance that type of stuff????
:-k

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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by covert » 05 November 10 9:59 pm

2.4GHz

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Rigger64
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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by Rigger64 » 05 November 10 10:22 pm

Yeah that all good & well but is it roveing all over the band or is it in one spcific part as the 2.4Ghz band is quite wide.
Don't forget most codless phones are in the 2.4Ghz band with.

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Richary
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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by Richary » 06 November 10 12:04 am

The class licence that covers 2.4 GHz allows many different things. For a start you have the 802.11b/g signals that use one of 11 specific channels for wireless lan etc. These are defined as part of a standard for wireless networking. Other (mainly older) wireless systems use frequency hopping that can be all over the band for links. Bluetooth also uses this band.

Basically there is about 80 MHz of bandwidth there you can use, in any way you like as long as you stay within the specs. There is no requirement to stay on any specific frequency or channel.

I had a brief search to see what Chirp uses without success, so I have no idea of their particular technology or method of transmitting the signals. (As background have worked with WLAN technology deployments for about 10 years)

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Rigger64
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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by Rigger64 » 06 November 10 12:24 am

Richary wrote:The class licence that covers 2.4 GHz allows many different things. For a start you have the 802.11b/g signals that use one of 11 specific channels for wireless lan etc. These are defined as part of a standard for wireless networking. Other (mainly older) wireless systems use frequency hopping that can be all over the band for links. Bluetooth also uses this band.

Basically there is about 80 MHz of bandwidth there you can use, in any way you like as long as you stay within the specs. There is no requirement to stay on any specific frequency or channel.

I had a brief search to see what Chirp uses without success, so I have no idea of their particular technology or method of transmitting the signals. (As background have worked with WLAN technology deployments for about 10 years)
My background Has been GSM, WCDMA & Microwave Which cover From 4Mhz through to some were about 3Ghz.
Iwas in the comms game for about 15 years Hence my caching name i was/em a comms Rigger but the body has started to slow down.

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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by Papa Bear_Left » 06 November 10 2:16 am

My gut feel is that the wi-fi/bluetooth in smartphones probably have too much of the protocol stack in firmware in the actual radio chips to be able to adapt to the ANT protocol that Chirps use. That is, it's not a matter of just programming the software for the CPU of the phone, it would require getting debug access to the wireless chip(s), and data on how to do that is often not public, nor is the interface necessarily accessible to the CPU.

I could be wrong, though, and the trend toward "everything's upgradeable" might make this a software patch problem rather than a buy-a-dongle issue.

The hardware to interface an ANT device to a USB device should be quite simple, but it'll only happen if there's enough userbase to make it worth someone's while. Maybe if ANT takes off as a home automation standard, we'll benefit as a spin-off.

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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by Damo. » 06 November 10 6:37 am

This QandA pdf from ANT wireless has a bit of info.
http://www.thisisant.com/images/Resourc ... qandas.pdf
ANT, ZigBee, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi and some cordless phones all use the 2.4 GHz band (as well as 868- and 915 MHz for regional variants in the latter's case), along with proprietary forms of wireless Ethernet and USB.

Wi-Fi/ZigBee and Bluetooth employ Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum (DSSS) and Frequency-Hopping Spread Spectrum (FHSS) schemes respectively to maintain the integrity of the wireless link.

ANT uses an adaptive isochronous network technology to ensure co-existence. This scheme provides the ability for each transmission to occur in an interference free time slot within the defined frequency band. The radio transmits for less than 150 µs per message, allowing a single channel to be divided into hundreds of timeslots. The ANT messaging period (the time between each node transmitting its data) determines how many time slots are available.

ANT's adaptive isochronous scheme doesn't require a master clock. Transmitters start broadcasting at regular intervals but then modify the transmission timing if interference from a neighbor is detected on a particular timeslot. This flexibility allows ANT to adapt to hostile conditions but ensures there is no overhead when interference is not present.

If the radio environment is very crowded, ANT can use frequency agility to allow an application microcontroller-controlled "hop" to an alternative 1 MHz channel in the 2.4 GHz band which can then be subdivided into timeslots.

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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by Map Monkey » 06 November 10 7:48 am

ANT, ZigBee, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi and some cordless phones all use the 2.4 GHz band (as well as 868- and 915 MHz for regional variants in the latter's case), along with proprietary forms of wireless Ethernet and USB.

Wi-Fi/ZigBee and Bluetooth employ Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum (DSSS) and Frequency-Hopping Spread Spectrum (FHSS) schemes respectively to maintain the integrity of the wireless link.

ANT uses an adaptive isochronous network technology to ensure co-existence. This scheme provides the ability for each transmission to occur in an interference free time slot within the defined frequency band. The radio transmits for less than 150 µs per message, allowing a single channel to be divided into hundreds of timeslots. The ANT messaging period (the time between each node transmitting its data) determines how many time slots are available.

ANT's adaptive isochronous scheme doesn't require a master clock. Transmitters start broadcasting at regular intervals but then modify the transmission timing if interference from a neighbor is detected on a particular timeslot. This flexibility allows ANT to adapt to hostile conditions but ensures there is no overhead when interference is not present.

If the radio environment is very crowded, ANT can use frequency agility to allow an application microcontroller-controlled "hop" to an alternative 1 MHz channel in the 2.4 GHz band which can then be subdivided into timeslots.
That would have been my first guess. :shock:

mm

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Happy Chappies
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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by Happy Chappies » 07 November 10 10:06 pm

I noticed something on my laptop which I never noticed before, which was a Garmin ANT application of some form (I've never used it - it just sits on my toolbar after installing some Garmin software I guess) - Would this communicate with a chirp? Nice to know I could use it as a backup if I ever wanted to....

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Rigger64
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Re: Garmin Chirp

Post by Rigger64 » 07 November 10 10:27 pm

Happy Chappies wrote:I noticed something on my laptop which I never noticed before, which was a Garmin ANT application of some form (I've never used it - it just sits on my toolbar after installing some Garmin software I guess) - Would this communicate with a chirp? Nice to know I could use it as a backup if I ever wanted to....
well there is only one to find out fid a Chirp near you & try it.
chances are it wont but then again if it works thats great.
And even if it doesn't realy what have you lost asides from a bit of time.

Hang on what em i saying that's valable caching time lost ](*,) :stabby

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