Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

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kennythe1st
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Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by kennythe1st » 21 August 10 8:33 pm

Judging by a forum search using 'Sistema +waterproof' most geocachers believe the Sistema is waterproof. 'Maccamob' and 'SWAG agg' seemed to be lone voices (can more than one voice be lone?). Not so lonely after my experience today. Take a look at this Sistema rescued from a riverside cache http://geocaching.com.au/gallery/log/2476161 :!:

Testing at home with that container and a smaller size showed it was eminently repeatable. Now what do I use? At least I have a good supply of food storage containers but will NOT be using them for liquids.

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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by Damo. » 21 August 10 8:57 pm

There has been plenty of previous discussion on this matter.
Lock'n'Lock brand containers are more waterproof than Sistema as proven by TheUmp's swimming pool/brick test.

I found Sistema containers I put out when I first started caching to stay quite dry for a couple of years before starting to get damp which makes me suspect the rubber seal shrinks as it ages.
I also think that over the past few years that perhaps Sistema are skimping on the seal as I do think they are slightly less airtight than they used to be.

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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by Tuena » 21 August 10 10:14 pm

They're designed for kitchen use so being immersed in water normally only happens during washing up.

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the farmers 5
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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by the farmers 5 » 21 August 10 10:40 pm

kennythe1st wrote:Judging by a forum search using 'Sistema +waterproof' most geocachers believe the Sistema is waterproof. .
:shock: :shock:

I am sure you correct ,if you did a survey ,most cachers believe for some reason that Sistema's are exactly that..." waterproof ".

Just on 18 months ago ,i rang the Manager of Sistema in New Zealand about being a Gold Sponsor and involved in a big way at the Oz Mega Wagga Wagga.
Incredibly , i was amazed at few things in our first discussions. Firstly , i thought he would say no...for many reasons including what i thought he might say about being a sponsor of many geocaching events or only wanting to support NZ. :shock:
After the first few minutes of talks , he had never heard of Geocaching. :shock: :shock:

He was quickly talked into being a Gold Sponsor at the first attempt. Our chats spoke about many things and one thing he did mention was this......Keep in mind they make over 28 individual products ,and geocaching uses those typical 4 or 5 ,we all use and see. 200ml, 400ml, 500ml, 750ml and 1 litre sizes usually with blue clips. :D
They are "MADE " for fresh food ,kids sandwiches, food storage in fridges....all that sort of thing.

To complain about
" the container letting water in " because a river came up or rain flooded a hide spot is ' out of order '. The product was not made for geocaching, believe it or not for those who wont accept it.It a food purpose product. It wasnt made for geocaching and food became an afterthought ! :D
I think the point about the rubber seal shrinking is probaly valid and i would think it gets brittle and cracks over the ages too. :shock:
I think another point to remember is there has been 10 years or more of drought and locations that you would think would never get muddy or flood have changed this year all around Australia with the wet conditions.
Another good idea is to use two zip-locks plastic bags in some of your doubtful caches. i have at plenty with 2 zip-locks bags and most have stood the savage wet conditions. :o :o :o
So, back to the original point.No where on any sistema container or packaging does it state ..." Waterproof ". So ,you cant hold Sistema to it. You just have to think of extra precautions as the drought is over. =D> =D>
PS/ Sistema are great contributors to geocaching and amongst many things donated over 200 sistema's placed in 65 prize packs at the Mega Event. So we applaud there products and support them where possible. =D> =D> =D> =D>

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roundcircle
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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by roundcircle » 21 August 10 10:57 pm

Whilst I really like the humble Sistema, they don't pass the Beetroot test.

The Beetroot test: Empty a can of Beetroot and juice into the container to be tested. Seal the container. Then tip the container on it's side. It's pretty obvious if the container has a good seal or not.

When I've performed this test in my fridge, I've had to clean the fridge.

If you want a really solid water proof container, get an ammo can.

I wonder if an ammo can would fit in my fridge.

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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by pwags » 21 August 10 11:19 pm

Sistemas are great with a HDD magnet under a bridge or metal railing. The 2-litre ones fit perfectly inside a .30cal ammo can. Up in a tree hollow off the ground they work well, too. But I've learned that putting one in a hollow in the ground that can fill with water is a bad move.

And, as you can see from my avatar image, I really do love them!

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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by WazzaAndWenches » 21 August 10 11:21 pm

the farmers 5 wrote:...He was quickly talked into being a Gold Sponsor at the first attempt...
As a winner of a bag of goodies including a number of Sistema containers at the Oz Mega Wagga Wagga event I can't speak highly enough of Sistema as a company or a product. It's fantastic of them to support caching in such a way. =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

As for waterproof, The Farmers 5 is correct - Sistemas do not claim to be waterproof and are, indeed, intended for food storage. They'll stand up to a fair amount of rain, but will not stand up to being submerged. Don't expect them too. In fact, very few containers are genuinely waterproof (especially if submerged). [-X

Use a double zip-lock bag method and hide you caches in places where they wont get submerged. [-o<
the farmers 5 wrote:He was quickly talked into being a Gold Sponsor at the first attempt.

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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by Pesky! » 22 August 10 12:16 am

I agree with all . sistema are great lock and lock also good, but are not 'realy' made to be 100% airtight and water proof. to military or geoaching standards , are they?

one test i have not seen done ,and may be being missed in the "waterproof" abilities of caches is a theroy i have that involves humidty,and moisture such as dew, condensation and rain rather than total imersion in water for long periods.
my theory(s)
condensation inside the container can arise from humid air entering when the cache is opened, then even during the same day air pressures and temperatures change, and the humid air condences inside the container. which then continues to build up as moisture every time the continer is opened and closed.

secondly the change in air pressure may cause capilliary action into the container of anyu moisture or humid air outside of the continer, perhaps the seals do not like changes in temp and air pressure, and this would become more prevalent over time ( years ) of a cache being in the elements.

thirdly, people do not seal the container, and also do not make an efort to protect the container form moisture on rainy cahcing days.
forth, i carry a small bottle of stale river water , and puor a little into each cache when i log it. no one has realised its my signature item! :-"

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the farmers 5
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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by the farmers 5 » 22 August 10 10:23 am

Pesky! wrote: thirdly, people do not seal the container, and also do not make an efort to protect the container form moisture on rainy cahcing days.
! :-"
I think this is very true in alot of cases. Many times we have found the container with only one side clipped up. :shock:

I think another point that comes into calculations is the amount of small pieces of dirt, leaves, twigs and grits of sand not only in the cache but caught up around the seals.Then ,the seals are clamped together with bits of grit and grass,etc, and this leaves a slight airhole.
:shock:
As we all know then, you cant trick water and once its found an airhole ,the process of water somehow getting in starts.So, i guess its a case of teams being always on track to make sure any debris is away from the edges before closing the top,which they should be doing anyway. :D :D :D

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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by Yurt » 22 August 10 2:20 pm

Pesky! wrote:...
forth, i carry a small bottle of stale river water , and puor a little into each cache when i log it. no one has realised its my signature item! :-"
So THAT'S who does that!

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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by gmj3191 » 22 August 10 3:52 pm

I think the faith people have in ziplock bags is in the same category.
They may be waterproof for a while, but they soon crack, develop holes, get caught in the edges of the outer container and cause them to leak.
I guess they're better than nothing, but they're not very good in the longer term.
Part of the problem is that they're usually much bigger than we'd like, so they get folded which creates points of weakness.

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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by caughtatwork » 22 August 10 4:12 pm

A sistema in an ammo can can't be beat.
A bit more expensive, but some of mine in the wild have been in all sorts of weather and still no leaks.
Even if the ammo can leaks, you still get one more layer of protection.

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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by mtbikeroz » 22 August 10 7:49 pm

Tupperware !!!

I have a tupperware container at elevation 1860m, placed in Nov 2001. It is placed under a HUGE boulder in a large open space, but it can be reached by reaching in a mere one metre. Head room a good 400mm. It is exposed to the North. It is sitting there in PLAIN VIEW and has been for 9 yrs, getting the winter sun too, and rain & SNOW.

It has even had approx the same number of muggle entries, 15-20 OR SO, AND THERE IS NO CLIP LOCK ETC ETC. Log book inside has never been wet. It is a 2 bread loaf size container, cost a bit back then, have checked on it 3 times after fires & rains, all good.

With the sistema containers, one inside an ammo can is great, a cheaper option I have found that works is a small sistema (with 1/2 sized log book inside), inside a mid sized sistema, then placed in a rock cavern out of all weather.

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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by Dik: » 23 August 10 2:13 pm

I have a waterproof raincoat.

If I wear it in the bath I get wet #-o .

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Re: Waterproof Sistema? Doesn't look likely

Post by Big Matt and Shell » 23 August 10 4:00 pm

Dik: wrote:I have a waterproof raincoat.

If I wear it in the bath I get wet #-o .
LMAO!

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