DNF on muggled caches

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Yurt
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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by Yurt » 27 July 10 9:51 am

Philipp wrote:
MtnLioness wrote:...Bar some exceptions ~
Nope. there are no exceptions.
Sez you!

I think MtnLioness is on the money here.

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Big Matt and Shell
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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by Big Matt and Shell » 27 July 10 11:31 am

Philipp wrote:
MtnLioness wrote:...Bar some exceptions ~
Nope. there are no exceptions.
I think your a bit over the top here, to be able to say you didn't find something means you must have actually started looking for it. Otherwise you would have to log a DNF on any cache you have ever been near or driven past.

We work on the principle of if we started looking then it becomes either a find or a DNF, if you get muggled or the container is muggled or whatever then it is still a DNF. A NM or SBA follows on from this. If you decide not to even look then to me it is a note. BTW, I count a long walk as starting to look for a cache, last year we hiked up the Thurat Spires and could not get closer than 120m to the GZ, I logged this one as a DNF, after all we had invested 6 hours to get the the cache but just didn't feel comfortable pushing on to the GZ.
Bewilderbeest wrote:but I'm expecting to pick up a few more on my upcoming Qld trip #-o
If our trip was anything to go by I'd say unfortunately yes...
Richary wrote:That said, I won't generally post multiple DNFs on the one cache even if I have had a few looks at different times.
I do, if I have been back 3 times then I think it is important that the owner knows it as it may influence their maintenance decision.
Richary wrote:So I won't race over to Manly just to check it on the basis of 1 DNF, if I see 2-3 in a row, especially from experienced finders then I will make it a priority to get over there on the next free weekend.
I hope you don't do this for our logs? We seem to be able to not find them almost as good as being able to find them some days. I learnt a long time ago that it also doesn't pay to proclaim in your log that the cache absolutely mustn't be there as more often than not the next cacher comes along and makes what they log as an easy find. :oops:
pprass wrote:I know some cachers don't post DNF's as it ruins their stats (amongst other things!) so I'm thinking if it was acceptable or common to go back and change the status of your log, maybe more would be willing to post DNF's
I can't see the issue with logging these? How can it "ruin" your stats? Most of the GSAK based stats programs don't even track DNF's! I like the fact that I can look back and say I had a crack at those caches and they beat me!

One final thing I do after a DNF is I put a watchlist on the cache. This is the thing for me that either confirms it was gone or that I was blind. I don't stop watching that cache until it is found, replaced or archived. So if anyone is ever wondering who is lurking on your caches then chances are if we've DNF'd it, we are!

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edmil
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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by edmil » 27 July 10 12:16 pm

MtnLioness wrote:I agree that if you actually did some kind of search and did not come up with the goods, that warrants a DNF.
Bar some exceptions ~
If you just looked out your car window as you slowed down near to where you would park and decided that getting out wasn't going to be an option.
Pretty much agree with MtnLioness. A driveby in a car I don't think has any bearing on a cache search unless it's a multi to which you have had to drive from the original co-ordinates in that instance I will log a DNF especially if I ended up somewhere that the cache is unlikely to be,
If you got muggled out.
Log a DNF on these with the clarifier that I couldn't get the cache due to muggle activity.
If the container is obviously destroyed (there is evidence strewn about) as that simply needs a Needs maintenance log.
I have no qualms about logging a DNF on these along with a maintenance request and also a PM to Owner with any other necessary details; details you probably don't want to put up for all cachers as it would give cache away. Further If I think that the cache may have been disturbed the area is being destroyed or if there are other issues. i.e. the area is unsafe (sharps and the like) I will PM the owner, but DNF goes up

If you really just think you weren't looking hard enough and decide to come back relatively soon-ish. This last one only just gets the exception rule sometimes for me, it depends on a few things like time alloted to searching, weather or just over it for the day and I know I'll be back in the area some other time.
I DNF any cache for which a search was not successful, regardless of how long or how much effort I put into it. The log often indicates why I didn't find it. This is as much for the cache owner and other cachers who may be relying on the Logs for some assistance. A straight DNF tells them nothing.

I often rely on DNF's to give me a sense of whether or not the cache may indeed be missing. If there a few DNFs the cache will not be searched for as long.

Sad face or Smiley face makes no difference to me. Its the joy of the search and the destination. I am happy to admit when a cache has got the better of me, sometimes I put it on a watch list and then have another attempt later its still being found or the owner has confirmed it;s still there.

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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by Bewilderbeest » 27 July 10 1:06 pm

I basically take the same approach as Big Matt. Looking but not finding results in a DNF. Not even looking, usually due to muggles, is a note.

It does depend a little bit, DNFs can be useful for flagging an issue with a cache, but if Im concerned about something I'll usually email the owner first.

I also usually watchlist caches I've DNFd, so that Im notified of owner maintenance or other cachers subsequently finding it - and hopefully leaving a clue in their log! - so that I know the cache is there for me to attempt again.

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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by Apty » 27 July 10 3:23 pm

Following my recent post, I looked for a multi in Victor Harbor yesterday and logged the DNF.
Today, I looked at the cache info again and discovered I had used S coord solution as E and vice versa. There should be a DOH! log type!!! [-X

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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by blossom* » 27 July 10 7:27 pm

Apty wrote:Following my recent post, I looked for a multi in Victor Harbor yesterday and logged the DNF.
Today, I looked at the cache info again and discovered I had used S coord solution as E and vice versa. There should be a DOH! log type!!! [-X
I can sympathise with this! There are just the odd one or five caches where I've had this problem (brain not working). Maybe there ought to be such a log type and you could change the DNF to DOH when you realised how stupid you were. #-o

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Richary
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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by Richary » 27 July 10 11:42 pm

Big Matt and Shell wrote:
Bewilderbeest wrote:but I'm expecting to pick up a few more on my upcoming Qld trip #-o
If our trip was anything to go by I'd say unfortunately yes...[/quote[

I notice an increase in DNF ratio whenever I travel to a new area. Slightly different hiding styles maybe from what I am used to, apart from the different vegetation.
Richary wrote:That said, I won't generally post multiple DNFs on the one cache even if I have had a few looks at different times.
I do, if I have been back 3 times then I think it is important that the owner knows it as it may influence their maintenance decision.
I guess it depends. If I have done multiple attempts in between others finding it, and haven't noticed anything new that is worth noting. So if it's just recently been found, and I still can't find it, I figure it is probably still there but I am still just as blind as I was last visit.
Richary wrote:So I won't race over to Manly just to check it on the basis of 1 DNF, if I see 2-3 in a row, especially from experienced finders then I will make it a priority to get over there on the next free weekend.
I hope you don't do this for our logs? We seem to be able to not find them almost as good as being able to find them some days. I learnt a long time ago that it also doesn't pay to proclaim in your log that the cache absolutely mustn't be there as more often than not the next cacher comes along and makes what they log as an easy find. :oops:
I don't recall you having any DNFs on mine, then again I haven't really got that many hidden where you are likely to be caching. I know that experienced cachers can and will miss them occasionally (heck after 2700+ finds I should be better at it than I am). It partly depends on the log as well, if people detail that they spent a fair amount of time and I know them it is more likely to ring alarm bells than someone with 10 under their belt. That said I probably still wouldn't make a special effort to check until a couple more DNF logs, though if I was passing for other reasons I might well call in.

At least I got to use the caching skills for work today, needed a key to get in somewhere and was told it was in a hidden magnetic key holder to the left. That was easy! :lol:

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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by Tealby » 28 July 10 9:08 am

I agree with most of the comments posted to date & certainly log my share of DNFs & see no shame in that (although it is always a bit embarrassing when it is an "easy" hide that is subsequently found by a newby cacher!!). :oops:

However, looking at the stats it appears that there are lots in the caching community that don't want to fess up to a DNF (or probably can't be bothered writing the log - which, as mentioned in earlier logs does not help the caching community as a whole). When I looked at the top 50 cachers by DNF I was #42 on the list. Now assuming that I am not significantly better or worse than any other cacher (which, given my comment in the para about may be debatable) then I would expect to have a relative position on the find list - yet I do not feature on that list & suspect that my 2375 finds would put me quite a few positions below #50. Perhaps an even better example is richary - #10 for DNF but only #44 for finds - I'm sure this is no reflection on richary's caching abilities!!

I'd encourage everyone to log their DNFs & certainly think it's a bit cheeky when cachers ask for a hint, stating they have searched unsuccessfully (sometimes on several occasions), yet haven't logged a DNF.

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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by pprass » 28 July 10 3:15 pm

Freddo wrote:5 DNF's today. That brings the Freddo total to 678 DNFs!!!
We reckon that an audit should be conducted on this amazing feat! Would all cache owners that have had a Freddo DNF log please go out and check that Freddo hasn't placed a note in the log book :roll:

Freddo - how do you cache? Do you have a 30 second rule? "Got out of the vehicle and approached GZ and the cache didn't jump out of the bush and say "here I am" so after 30 seconds I left - too tough for me today!" :D

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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by Freddo » 28 July 10 9:43 pm

Of those 5 DNFs one DNF was a drive by. The place was surrounded by muggles. A cache called Burt in a town with a population of 25. The cache is 300km from home base. I have been there three times on three seperate trips and muggled off each time. My take on this cache is that the local hider Bowz2 is paying muggles to hang around the park.

The other 4 DNFs were legitimate. I spent 20 minutes at a cemetry where I had got multi maths wrong (Frogs can't count). Another 20 minutes over two visits in a small town park. 20 minutes looking for a micro ammo can in a rock pile. Curse you TK2. And finially 10 minutes at a very clever hide that I have visited three times and STILL not found. Black curse on you TK2.

Any wonder my 300km trip took 7.5 hours. Although I did find another 11 caches on the way.

As MtLioness perfectly said DNFs are a simple message on the condition of your cache. No messages does not mean no problem. Sometimes a well written DNF log is more fun than a find log TNLNSLTFTC or BN.SOS.BDTHNFAEEWSN.

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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by Richary » 28 July 10 10:29 pm

Well I finally knocked off one today that I did log a DNF on originally due to muggles, and every subsequent visit to that park has had it full of at least one set of muggles on the playground equipment (yes it is one of those). So I haven't bothered getting out of the car to look, and figured another DNF doesn't add to anything for the cache owner to check, or future finders. If the park is empty as it finally was late this afternoon in the rain, then it is a fairly simple find. Would 10 DNF "drove up, park full of muggles, drove on without stopping" logs have been of any real use?

Considering the number of playgrounds I see in Sydney with nobody ever using them, this has to be about the most popular in Sydney I think, maybe with the exception of Darling Harbour. I am very glad to have put up with the rain to get the thing off the list finally!

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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by ruzzelz » 28 July 10 11:17 pm

Richary wrote: Would 10 DNF "drove up, park full of muggles, drove on without stopping" logs have been of any real use?
For me yes - a cache to schedule for 5:00 am or to place on the ignore list -especially if near playground equipment [-(

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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by bshwckr » 29 July 10 8:55 pm

I recently logged a DNF on a virtual!
http://geocaching.com.au/cache/ga1725
Thought it may help others doing the loop walk clockwise and running out of time like me.

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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by Wingaap » 30 July 10 4:01 pm

How does a cache owner know if there is a problem if you dont log dnfs.

As a cache owner I'm all in favour of people logging dnfs....keep them coming.

As a finder..or perhaps searcher is a better term....if I dont find it after making a search I'll log a dnf.

If I did not search due to muggles etc I will simply write a note.

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Re: DNF on muggled caches

Post by nibbler » 30 July 10 4:20 pm

As a finder I have no problem logging a DNF . What I cant stand is a Cache owner who does not maintain their cache.
If you get 3 DNF and with an entry that says "definitely gone because I came to this cache with someone who has found it before" then they do nothing for months and months .
This just gets me angry ..if you place a cache maintain the thing or deactivate it or get someone to take over or get someone to visit it for you .
I 've finished my rant ](*,)
cheers have agood weekend cache all.

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