Geocaching in National Parks Info Needed

[The Coffee's]

http://forum.geocaching.com.au/viewtopi ... p143844<br>
I have come across from the Victorian thread as I need some information
about Geocaching and associated National parks banning of Geocaching.<p>
<p>
Although i have found some old info dating back to 2002 in reation to geocaching in National Parks I was hoping to track down the media releases that list it as banned.<p>
Once I get all this together I will post more details and hopefully a well constructed plan.<br>
Regards Mr.Coffee.

[caughtatwork]

For NSW.
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/polic ... policy.htm

Geocaching is an adventure game based on a 'treasure hunt' theme where participants in one party use a handheld GPS device to search for sealed caches left by other parties. Geocaching is not permitted in areas managed by the NPWS.

[The Coffee's]

For NSW.
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/polic ... policy.htm

Geocaching is an adventure game based on a 'treasure hunt' theme where participants in one party use a handheld GPS device to search for sealed caches left by other parties. Geocaching is not permitted in areas managed by the NPWS.

<p>
<p>
Geocaching
9. Geocaching is not permitted in protected areas managed by the NPWS.
10. As an activity organised from the internet, geocaching events have
indefinite time frames and undefined numbers of participants, rendering
management of the activity ineffective.
11. While it is recognised that geocaching shares some common attributes
with orienteering and rogaining, there is also an insufficient nexus
between geocaching as a recreational activity and the conservation
purpose for which NPWS protected areas are reserved or dedicated.<p>
<p>
Yet the actual policy states Protected areas, rather than areas.<br>
In relation to point 10, this is a clear indication that if it is not controlled or managed by a group or committee it does not meet their guidelines. They need to be educated on this.<p>
Point 11 was used as a pointless point in the Governments attempt to close areas, and I think I have the same wording in a submission in relation to 4wd in some hard to manage areas.<p>
<p>
Thanks for the info Caughtatwork much appreciated.

[caughtatwork]

Queensland.
I can't find a policy on any Queensland Government website, but that's not atypical when it comes to government.

This thread has information:
http://forum.geocaching.com.au/viewtopi ... and+banned

We have received word from Queensland Parks & Wildlife Service, Department of Environment and Resource Management that the placing of a cache container in National Parks and other protected areas is illegal and the placer may be prosecuted. Rangers have been instructed to remove caches.

Groundspeak were contacted only a few days ago and i,riblit had a talk with the people involved within a day or two of hearing about the situation.
I think we should be pleased that a dispensation was negotiated that allows older caches to remain!

Given there was a formal request to ban new cache listings in areas managed by Queensland P&WS, I recommend you contact Riblit or theUMPas the official Groundspeak contact in Australia. They should be able to provide a link or contact information about the banning.

Note that it is possible that geocaching itself has not been banned, but the simple act of leaving a container in an area managed by QNP&WS would constitute a breach of law, possibly littering. What constitutes "illegal" needs to be determined.

[The Coffee's]

Thanks again Caughtatwork. Skimming through some of the threads and posts shows there is a call for various associations to be set up in each state. Personally I think there maybe a need for some sort of body/group to get in touch with federal and state ministers. To go straight to various parks departments is too easy to say no and that's final.
We need to plan and have all the right ammunition and answers to justify our geocaching cause.
Time to rally a few people but please keep the info coming in.

[caughtatwork]

Just to be overly negative for a moment

People will say something is needed but it will always be someone else's problem to solve. People have been saying we need an Australian association, a Victoria association, NSW, Qld, Tasmania, etc, association but when push comes to shove, everyone backs away and nothing happens.

[The Coffee's]

I Love a Challenge and although I am busy packing for a big move I am happy to do all I can to get our Geocaching recognised and approved.

[ZED!]

Good luck to you Mr. Coffee.

Geocaching
9. Geocaching is not permitted in protected areas managed by the NPWS.
10. As an activity organised from the internet, geocaching events have
indefinite time frames and undefined numbers of participants, rendering
management of the activity ineffective.
11. While it is recognised that geocaching shares some common attributes
with orienteering and rogaining, there is also an insufficient nexus
between geocaching as a recreational activity and the conservation
purpose for which NPWS protected areas are reserved or dedicated

There in lies the problem, they've flagged Geocaching as an event, which it is not. They've compared Geocaching to Orienteering and Rogaining, which it is not. These two sports mentioned involved a great deal of off track navigation by a great number of people in a given period.
What Geocaching is, to take it to it's basic level when involved with Nat. Parks is a variation to Bushwalking, except we have a GPSr instead of /as well as a map. We are still individuals or small groups taking a leisurley walk and use the marked trails. Off track navigation is kept to a bare minumum if at all.

[Echo]

[quote="Mr.Coffee and the Clan"]We need to plan and have all the right ammunition and answers to justify our geocaching cause.quote]

Can I have the ammo boxes?

[The Coffee's]

Good luck to you Mr. Coffee.

Geocaching
9. Geocaching is not permitted in protected areas managed by the NPWS.
10. As an activity organised from the internet, geocaching events have
indefinite time frames and undefined numbers of participants, rendering
management of the activity ineffective.
11. While it is recognised that geocaching shares some common attributes
with orienteering and rogaining, there is also an insufficient nexus
between geocaching as a recreational activity and the conservation
purpose for which NPWS protected areas are reserved or dedicated

There in lies the problem, they've flagged Geocaching as an event, which it is not. They've compared Geocaching to Orienteering and Rogaining, which it is not. These two sports mentioned involved a great deal of off track navigation by a great number of people in a given period.
What Geocaching is, to take it to it's basic level when involved with Nat. Parks is a variation to Bushwalking, except we have a GPSr instead of /as well as a map. We are still individuals or small groups taking a leisurley walk and use the marked trails. Off track navigation is kept to a bare minumum if at all.

<p>
"there is also an insufficient nexus between geocaching as a recreational activity and the conservation purpose for which NPWS protected areas are reserved or dedicated"
This really urked me. Insufficient connection between geocaching and what a national park is designed for. Do they know that people actually stop and walk into a NP.<p>
Yes it appears that they have indeed flagged geocaching as an event. After reading many government sites there is a definite trend that suggests geocaching is anything other than a sporting hobby that requires a GPSr.<p>
I think at this stage we need to draft, design and create a Geocaching code that relates to caching in NP's. This would require support from all areas of geocaching including GC.com. If this does get of the ground it is the geocacher that will make it work or fail.<p>
The fail part: Some time ago (no names or details) there was a cache planted in a NP in Vic. The cache was placed in between 2 tracks on a slope. From the top is was a 40 metres downhill clearing and very easy to find. There was however a clear disturbance that many on the way down had disturbed the tan bark and plants. What was seen at the bottom was not clear until after.<p>
At the bottom track there was a clear sign that read Sensitive Conservation Regeneration Area, Please stay on the track. It took a lot of emails to have this cache archived.<p>
If we are going to become active in getting some basic rights to place caches in NP's through a volunteer code we need to stick to it and make sure not one mistake or error happens.

[The Coffee's]

We need to plan and have all the right ammunition and answers to justify our geocaching cause.quote]
Can I have the ammo boxes?

<p>
After I empty them .

[blossom*]

The Geocaching NSW Association was formed for just this purpose - to present our case to NPs in an attempt to get permission to geocache in the NPs in NSW again. There have been a number of meetings held and a bit of progress made. But unless there is an offical body representing the "players", we're never going to get things changed.

Other states could look at the NSW experience to see what's happening nad if it works.

[Webguy]

NSW NP's amungst other things, consider caches to be litter, as it is something that has been left behind.

Spindoc Bob, RAGS and I spent a morning recently with NP's showing them a bit more about caching, it was an interesting exchange thats for sure. I am sure Spindoc will post something more about it soon.

[The Hancock Clan]

NSW NP's amungst other things, consider caches to be litter, as it is something that has been left behind.

Just read the above and thought I'd just check the actual dictionary definition of the word litter which made interesting reading.

Oxford English Dictionary:

Litter n. "Rubbish left in public - a collection of things lying about untidly"

Collins Concise Dictionary:

Litter n. "1 Small items of rubbish carelessly dropped in public places 2 A disordered or untidy collection of objects"

(Rubbish n. "1 Discarded or waste matter. 2 Anything worthless or of poor quality")

The online dictionaries all pretty much say the same (rubbish, discarded, worthless etc.).

Not that it'll probably make any difference with this matter, I just felt it could be seen as being a bit insulting labelling geocaches as litter?

[The Spindoctors]

NSW NP's amungst other things, consider caches to be litter, as it is something that has been left behind.

Spindoc Bob, RAGS and I spent a morning recently with NP's showing them a bit more about caching, it was an interesting exchange thats for sure. I am sure Spindoc will post something more about it soon.

I certainly will - just need to get my thoughts and notes together.

I will point out that Tasmania and NSW have registered geocaching associations, and that Geocaching NSW has been in discussion with NPWS for the past 12 months on this issue.

As I said above, I'll point together a reponse to this in the next week or two (before our event).

BTW - NSW geocachers (and others) can support the association by buying a geocaching - go to http://www.geocachingnsw.asn.au/index.php/2009gc