Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

For all your general chit chat, caching or not.
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Ksix
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by Ksix » 02 September 09 2:19 pm

Sorry, but don't agree that all caches should easy and straight forward to find once you get to GZ. Some of the most memorable caches we have found are the very cleverly camoflaged containers that were not easy to find at all, but we got a lot of satisfaction after we did "eventually" come up trumps. Hence the reason for having a difficulty rating for a cache.

I know I have spent a lot of time on a couple of our caches that have been very heavily camoflaged and they have taken a number of cachers a couple of times trying (and a few hints sometimes) before they end up finding it. Having spoken to a number of these cachers afterwards, while they may curse and swear at me when they can't locate one, the satisfaction they do get when they do find them makes the effort worthwhile.

Hence, once again the difficulty rating, if you know a traditional cache has a difficulty rating of 3, 4 or 5, then you know before you even start to look that it will more than likely not be a "straight forward park and grab".

Thats the great thing about this sport/hobby/addiction/obsession, each to their own. If you don't like doing the caches that are not "straight forward" finds or "park and grabs", filter out the difficult ones and don't do them.

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PesceVerde
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by PesceVerde » 03 September 09 12:25 pm

The difficulty rating argument is good in theory.
Please consider the environmental damage a hard to find cache in bushland invites.

Who to blame? Often, sometimes, but not always, moi :!:

Rainbow Spirit
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by Rainbow Spirit » 03 September 09 2:38 pm

Just came back from a 2x2 DNF, DNFed these two 2.5/3s a year ago, DNFed them again!
And to add salt to the wound, I mentioned in my log last time at one of them, that I put my bag down on a bull ants nest, this time they climbed up my trousers, so I had to do a Tangles like cache log and whip off my trousers and do the bull ant jig!
Just as well it was in an isolated part of bushland!

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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by grahamf72 » 04 September 09 9:07 am

Ksix wrote:Sorry, but don't agree that all caches should easy and straight forward to find once you get to GZ. Some of the most memorable caches we have found are the very cleverly camoflaged containers that were not easy to find at all, but we got a lot of satisfaction after we did "eventually" come up trumps. Hence the reason for having a difficulty rating for a cache.
In part I agree - it can quickly become boring walking up to a tree to remove the cache from a pile of rocks under the only nearby tree. But when making a hide that is a bit harder than the norm, care should be given to the cache description so that it doesn't encourage destruction of the environment etc too. AND, the difficulty level needs to be accurate.

I am reminded of one in particular around here - environmental effects meant that there was poor GPS signal, it was a small sistema, painted in camo colours, hidden under a lot of leaf litter, against a fence about 15m long (which is about the GPS error in the location), under prickly bushes, in an area that seemed to get a lot of passerby traffic, no hint, and yet rated 1.5. Took me several visits to get it, and that was only after talking to some previous finders who said "you just have to keep digging around in the leaf litter until you get it" - something I was very reluctant to do. Talking to a few other cachers about it, indicated that there were more DNF's than what was logged. When I did find it, they were right - it took about an hour of just digging through leaf litter until I eventually struck upon something hard.

Some of the better tricky hides I have done have taken a similar amount of time to find, but they have been rated 2+, and there are just enough clues to let you know that you are not looking for a tupperware container hidden under bushes. ie, cachers aren't likely to tear up the vicinity. They haven't been "walk up and grab", but careful reading of the cache page, and a stop and think, will generally reveal an indication of how/where the cache is, so no destruction is necessary.

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Yurt
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by Yurt » 04 September 09 1:42 pm

I'd be a bit worred about digging under leaf litter in some parks as there can be discarded needles there. Not a nice thing to find sticking out of your finger. Hasn't happened to me but many years ago I had my 18 month old with me in Hyde Park in Sydney and he toddled off and started scraping away at leaves (a geocacher in the making even then!). It was then I saw a needle amongst the leaves, luckily he hadn't touched it at that stage. Has made me aware of them though.

On the original subject I dropped by the two caches I DNFed earlier this week, this time without a GPS and just looked at the general area for hiding spots. Found one after a good look by coming in from a different angle, the other was fairly easy but also found by looking from further away. The first would have been 10m off my initial GZ which isn't that bad. I think approaching from a different side is a technique that helps with cache blindness.

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Yurt
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by Yurt » 07 September 09 7:16 pm

Went back and found a couple of DNFs where in one case I could blame the GPS as the second time around we walked straight up to it!

But we revisited another and spent 40 minutes there to no avail, we would still be there if not for having to head to an appointment. The only good thing is that two more people after (and one before us) visited and logged DNFs. Yet it's there??? Difficulty 2?

I'm dying to know where this one is!!

Rainbow Spirit
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by Rainbow Spirit » 07 September 09 7:32 pm

Yurt, could you please tell us what cache is giving you these DNF problems?

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Big Matt and Shell
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by Big Matt and Shell » 07 September 09 8:54 pm

As a wild guess I would say Jimmy's Joy

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Yurt
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by Yurt » 07 September 09 10:32 pm

Didn't want to name names but that's it.

As Elmer Fudd might say: there's something scwewy going on there!

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Yurt
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by Yurt » 11 September 09 1:36 pm

And right on cue someone posts "an easy find" for it today!! :evil:

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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by backPAQer » 11 September 09 3:47 pm

Or they could have had a real hard time of it and posted that it was "easy" just to stir things a bit. ;)

Rainbow Spirit
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by Rainbow Spirit » 11 September 09 4:20 pm

Someones easy find can always be someone elses hard find, it's all relative......That said, I had trouble at a supposedly easy find with a DNF, and one of my geo friends found it later and logged a 'how could you miss it Rainbow Spirit!' Oh the shame..... :D

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Yurt
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by Yurt » 13 September 09 7:45 pm

Have found 4 former DNFs this week. One was due to 'flexible' coords - about 16-20 m out but there was a photo clue I'd not looked at before. One had been muggled last time but I'm not sure I even looked where I found it in the end. One other was in a high muggle area and this time it was quiet so I could have a proper look. The last one just happened to be in a spot where there were many many hiding places and we'd somehow missed this one the first time.

I must say finding a former DNF is one of the more satifying finds.

Have reduced the list to 5 DNFs now. :D
Haven't been back to THAT cache yet!

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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by The Coffee's » 14 September 09 10:11 pm

Rabbitto wrote:
Yurt wrote:It's just so frustrating to spend an age on a DNF thinking it must be gone and then a few days later someone logs "an easy find".
Congratulations. You have just reached level 3.
<p>
Level 3, welcome to geocaching.<p>
Until the US military change civilian based GPS signals to military we can never expect to get much better than 3-5 metres accuracy. the 3-5 metres refers to 3-5 metres each side of GZ.<p>
The day accuracy gets to 25mm is the day geocaching would become too easy, part of the fun is the search. Solving some of Rabbitto's puzzles however takes fun to a new level equal with Bungy Jumping naked :lol: :shock: :lol: :shock: ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

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Richary
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Re: Who to blame? The cacher? The GPS? Moi?

Post by Richary » 15 September 09 12:05 am

Plus your 3-5 metres accuracy also depends on the hider, they could have had 5 metres the other way so that makes 10. I always make a little bit more of an allowance for older caches that were probably hidden with single channel GPSrs. Though they are generally pretty good. If we had WAAS working here could get closer, but as you say who wants it to take you exactly to GZ with no searching needed. Where's the challenge in that?

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