TrigPointing

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Would you activly hunt trig points as part of your caching activities?

Poll ended at 11 April 09 2:33 am

Yes
25
76%
No
8
24%
 
Total votes: 33

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The Spindoctors
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Post by The Spindoctors » 13 April 09 9:50 pm

caughtatwork wrote:Interestingly, this cache http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_de ... wp=GC13JXK sits below one of those black thingies but is not in the list. Is is a real one? A fake one? One not included for whatever reason.
You mean this one - http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM338X

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Richary
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Post by Richary » 13 April 09 10:37 pm

caughtatwork wrote:TP vs GA is a good one.
We can easily accommodate GA10000 up to GA99999 so that's not an issue. Having them as TP as said would mean they can be easily discernible as TP's.
<p>I guess that also brings up the question of naming them (not knowing what is in the dataset you have). I would prefer a fixed prefix like TP Brown Mountain for example, so when it gets abbreviated in the GPS the TP (or whatever) will be maintained so we know what it is. <p>Rather than Brown Mountain Trig that would be abbreviated to BROWNM in my GPS. And without checking the data may not know if it is a trig or a cache.

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caughtatwork
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Post by caughtatwork » 13 April 09 10:40 pm

The dataset I have been given has these thingies marked as "Horizontal Control Point". Are they the same thing? I'm a little worried that we're creating a set of points that aren't what we think they are.

Good point on the names. Not all of the points in the file have a name, so we'd create something generic for those.

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caughtatwork
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Post by caughtatwork » 13 April 09 10:42 pm

Spindoc Bob wrote:
caughtatwork wrote:Interestingly, this cache http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_de ... wp=GC13JXK sits below one of those black thingies but is not in the list. Is is a real one? A fake one? One not included for whatever reason.
You mean this one - http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM338X
Yeah, that's the one. It's not in the dataset I was given, so I'm not quite sure what dataset I have. There are around 5,000 points in the dataset, but I would expect more than that if it's all the trig points in Oz.

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caughtatwork
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Post by caughtatwork » 13 April 09 10:43 pm


TeamGeoPlesk
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Post by TeamGeoPlesk » 13 April 09 10:48 pm

caughtatwork wrote:By the way, WTF are they? TrigPoints? BenchMarks? SurveyPoints? What are they really?
The data, to the best of my knowledge, describes trig points. The american equivilant (benchmarks) can be any number of different types of survey points. Trig points being the black triangular things atop mountains(see http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/d ... 86267e.jpg). Most trig points have a small disk below them which is generally known as a benchmark/survey point (see http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/d ... bb33cf.jpg). There are quite litterely tens of thousands in each state.

I suppose that it is a good point to bring up in the forums... what would we be more likely to want to go and find? I personally would only really be interested in trig points... not so much survey points. Having done a quick search of survey points in eltham, vic... i have 6 within a kilometer of my house... now finding and logging these may realy detract from the credibility and point of the search. On the other hand, searching out trig points which are always atop hills (or highest points in a given area as shown in the previous posting... great piccy by the way), almost always offers great views and a great challenge.

Hope thats the sort of answer you were wanting c@w... if not please excuse the ramble :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post by TeamGeoPlesk » 13 April 09 11:01 pm

caughtatwork wrote:This is the dataset:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... Kk3XlP-jSQ
The data is from the Geoscience Australia 250K GIS dataset ( see http://www.ga.gov.au/ under free data downloads)

This dataset is an amalgamation of a number of themed datasets available freely to the public. I am 99.9% sure that the data in ShonkyMaps comes from this datset.

In this dataset there is what are known as Horizontal Control Points. This is where the data comes from. As far as I am aware, these Hor. Control Points are Trig Points.

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caughtatwork
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Post by caughtatwork » 13 April 09 11:17 pm

AHhh, that makes more sense. With just the trigpoints rather than the survey marks, that would be significantly less.

So, we have a dataset. Can we get a state for each point? If we wanted to present them by state, this would be the easiest method.

So the question comes back to "how to we want to incorporate these into the site"?

Sons of Callum
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Post by Sons of Callum » 13 April 09 11:24 pm

I have plugged some of the Trig Points into map source and they arnt in any order regarding states and it seems to be the same data set for Shonky Maps.

Is it possible to do a bulk load onto a map and then you could see where they all are?

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Post by caughtatwork » 13 April 09 11:38 pm

There are ways and means around this, it's just if we're given a state it's much less work for ME :-)

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Post by Damo. » 14 April 09 12:25 am

Any way you could use the "zones" feature to identify state based on the coordinates? Just do a quick zone for each state/territory.

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Post by Team Red Roo » 14 April 09 1:30 am

If the full dataset is available for Excel, it wouldn't be all that difficult export it to a Csv file and then to write up a macro to import it into Gsak.

Once that is done, you would have cache id's (a rule would need to be made) and you could also use the buit-in Gsak GetCountry and GetState functions to populate those fields.

Gsak has no elevation field, so that data would be lost unless it was written to a UserData field or perhaps the UserNotes field.

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Post by TeamGeoPlesk » 14 April 09 8:02 am

caughtatwork wrote:There are ways and means around this, it's just if we're given a state it's much less work for ME :-)
States can easily be incorporated, i will add this as a column tonight to the dataset. Easy geonerd stuff :lol:

I'll also get a aussie map organised tonight for all peoples interested. Again... easy for a geonerd :lol:

As for the data, the nature of a 250k dataset implies that it is fairly coarse, thus why some points are missing (for example there is no point there for Mt Eccles). The ones with no name are most likely in the middle of no where in a region without a name. I can arrange for these to have names generated given their locations.

Another way we could implement this is instead of publishing all 5000 caches (which may be counter productive with many being in arid zones, which would not neccessarily be found... ever) the list could be published as a GPX and dolled up to look like a pq in GSAK and on the gps. Then as people find these points they can publish them online with a description, difficulty, etc, etc. That way it saves space and those points published could later be downloaded with their full descriptions. This way it prevents points being published which are not accessable.

Just an idea if you follow my doodgy logic. As for how to incorporate it, i will have a think today and get back tonight... in the mean time work beccons!

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caughtatwork
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Post by caughtatwork » 14 April 09 8:28 am

TP codes and names can be relatively easily generated. If you can add the state for me that would be most beneficial. If you could also add a name, that would make life easier for me too as I wouldn't need to match it against the DB to get the locale.

Personally I would like to see the whole dataset added to GCA so they are easily searchable by the online tools at GCA. e.g. my query, Google Maps, etc.

Having 5,000 points that people may not want to "ever" see could be a challenge. People may need to get used to using the My Query functions to see just what they want rather than the cuirrtent position of get "everything" for the state. This would be a problem longer term anyway.

So at the moment I have teh following requirements:

New cache type of TrigPoint
TPnnnn as the waypoint ID.
Name to have TP or Trig as the prefix (e.g. Trig Mount Atkinson)
Difficulty defaulted to 2 with added functionality for the finders to change the difficulty when they log it.
Terrain defaulted to 3 (right in the middle of the range) with added functionality for the finders to change the terrain when they log it.
New TrigPoints can be added as they are discovered.
TrigPoints are dealt with in the same way as a standard GCA cache and will be included in all stats as another cache type.
Short / Long descriptions on the TrigPoint page to be a standard default (if someone could write this it would be most appreciated). Maybe allow the description to be updated or maybe just let the logs tell the tales?

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Post by TeamGeoPlesk » 14 April 09 8:30 pm

Sons of Callum wrote: Is it possible to do a bulk load onto a map and then you could see where they all are?
Done, its an overview map of australia so its fairly coarse but hope it gives you an idea where some of these things might be.

Image

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