Wait, are they at work?

Team Rubik · Post by **Team Rubik** » 15 October 07 10:52 pm

Let me start by reassuring all my friends in the caching world that this post has nothing to do with any phone call or email I have ever received from you, I would politely let you know if I had any concerns. By the same token, I hope you would do the same for me. I simply believe that a gentle reminder on caching etiquette is needed every so often as new people are continuously joining. 
 
Many of us have needed assistance at times and will happily phone someone we know (or whose phone number we have conveniently obtained!) for a hand. I've done it before, probably too much when I first started, but then we all have to learn self control eventually. 
 
Here's one to think about though. I don't care for what reason you call, but before you hit the send button, ask yourself this: 
A) Should I be calling them? 
B) Would they really want to give me hints for this cache? 
C) Is asking them for a hint putting them in an awkward position? 
D) Is now an appropriate time to call? 
E) Have I already phoned them once today? 
 
...and most importantly... 
 
F) Am I over doing it? 
 
If you need to call for a hint for every clever hide you encounter, perhaps you need to practice more. People don't always like giving away the ending. 
 
Cheers, 
 
Rob

Post by **caughtatwork** » 15 October 07 11:15 pm

Good questions, all of them.

I rarely call for help. If I do, it's people I can guess aren't working n the same weekends that I'm out caching.

I got a phone call at work today. No problems, not busy at the time. Other times, I just have to ignore it. Does the caller think I'm rude? Do they think I don't like them? Do they think I don't want to talk to them ever again? Do they consider I work 9 to 5 in an office and maybe I'm busy?

I think people will understand if you can't answer every call, but your point is valid. If "they're" free, maybe they also think "you're" free. Doesn't always work like that.

Richary · Post by **Richary** » 16 October 07 1:49 am

I have called for hints a few times over the time I have been caching. Always to mates though who I can see have found them.

1) I have to have had a really good search
2) Check the laptop which is with me for weekend searches, and see if there is a mate who has been one of the more recent finders in GSAK.
3) Call them. If they answer fine. If they don't then that is life.

I have hardly ever used the lifeline for a simply tradional unless I have been away from home and not likely to go back there. More likely to use it for a long multi where I have spent the time doing all the clues and come up blank. Firstly to confirm I am in the right area, and if so then where is the bl**dy thing?

And I have never had a problem with people calling me for hints either. If I get help from a friend I log it, hopefully they do the same.

Bewilderbeest · Post by **Bewilderbeest** » 16 October 07 8:56 am

I never phone for help when I'm out in the field. I always wait till I get home, and send an email either to someone I know who's found the cache recently, or the owner if I don't know any of the recent finders.

When I say "never", there is one exception to this rule! If I'm having trouble with a cache my wife has found, I might call her for a hint. But then, I usually know whether it's an okay time to call...

If · Post by If » 16 October 07 6:07 pm

The phone a friend network at geocaching is a valuable resource

If I didn't want questions asked I wouldn't give out me phone number.
One problem is that I spend a lot of time at work where mobile phones are not allowed

But out of work hours it's always turned on

So keep those desperate calls coming

They make me feel better after my own DNF's

cdmark · Post by **cdmark** » 16 October 07 7:12 pm

Another interesting discussion that you have raised Team Rubik! We personally have to be very desperate to actually use the 'phone a friend' approach when caching. This is just our personal preference and certainly I don't mind helping out the other cachers that have called us on the odd occasion.
I know we have not been caching as long as some but could probably count on one hand the number of times we have made a call for assistance, with most of the occasions being after we have given it a fair crack, or we thought that the cache may have been MIA.
Our preference is to not ask for assistance by to try again on another visit (if that is possible) or just admit defeat - I guess then leads to the other thread of when to log a DNF!
We enjoy the challenge of a good hide and prefer to have fewer finds but we have managed to find them ourselves. I am not sure that I would like to have 500 or 1000 finds and had to call for help on the majority of them. I mean have you really 'found' them?
I would not be excited about being called at work for a cache related call but that depends on what each of us do and where we work. Personally, I don't carry our mobile much at all as I hate the damn things! 
When does calling too often become stalking?

Cheers.

Team Rubik · Post by **Team Rubik** » 16 October 07 7:20 pm

cdmark wrote: We enjoy the challenge of a good hide and prefer to have fewer finds but we have managed to find them ourselves. I am not sure that I would like to have 500 or 1000 finds and had to call for help on the majority of them. I mean have you really 'found' them.

Good point. It does nothing for your reputation as a cacher if you regularly admit defeat and have to call for help, particularly on caches that are meant to be cunning.

Lucy · Post by **Lucy** » 16 October 07 9:15 pm

I have never used the phone a friend option, simply because I don't know any other cachers well enough to have their phone numbers

I have PM'ed a few of you though, and you have all been most helpful!

I generally ignore the phone when I am caching; if I have found time to cache, it means that I am NOT on call - a rare event! Though with the ability to program different ring tones for different groups, I guess I could come up with a suitable ring tone to indicate cacher on the phone. What would you pick?

Team Piggy · Post by **Team Piggy** » 16 October 07 9:58 pm

Whatever I say, Pick up the phone and ask/answer. No big deal.

I very recently had a call from a "very" experienced team about a rural cache that I haad already done.
Sadly I knew that they would probably not be able to retrieve it due to the height, agility to get up to the cache. (They shocked me, I see by their find log!)

I dont see it as an issue, its only a game!

Its been set up for ages, where cachers have their numbers on display for this very purpose.

Tratty · Post by **Tratty** » 17 October 07 12:01 am

I am relatively new to this pastime and have never yet phoned a friend but I believe this game is different things for different people, so how you achieve your end result is a totally individual thing and at the end of the day it is what you fell satisfied with.

I personally prefer the ones that require a bit of a walk to get to but the cache is actually relatively easy to find, I still do the other sorts but I find myself getting frustrated when I can't find the cache quickly.

So I think if you're happy to phone someone when you get into trouble just do it.

Richary · Post by **Richary** » 17 October 07 12:40 am

I am flexible (just ask my girlfriend [ only joking

) I won't generally use that option for a nearby cache unless I have had a few tries at it and got really frustrated. If the cache is meant to be devious and hard to find then I don't try it. And I don't use the option to get the final coords for a puzzle I can't solve.

If I am 100km+ from home, somewhere I might not get back to for a long time, then I am more likely to use the phone option to a previous finder that shows up in GSAK.

I will admit to using it closer, after a long multi where I was just having trouble at the final location not getting the correct lock. Finally found that devious hide at the end with a hint or two, though it was about 15m from the final coords (and it wasnt a mystery, each point had the coords for the next one). Luckily there was a pub over the road where I could have a quiet one while I waited for Astro to ring back!

Ranger1 · Post by **Ranger1** » 21 October 07 9:24 pm

we have only used the phone a friend option a couple of times but only to cachers whom we have already made friends with, but only if we have tried without success a couple of times in the past. However as a ranger I am always on call, so if anyone needs help with caches that we have found, please ask.

TeamAstro · Post by **TeamAstro** » 21 October 07 11:13 pm

Phone a friend?

Hell, I only have geocaching friends now. That makes up for 90% of my phone bill. How do you find 2000 otherwise!!!! Mmmmmm.

Phone me anytime!!! But have a look first

clear skies, Astro.

Mr Walker · Post by **Mr Walker** » 22 October 07 3:20 pm

What! All you people actually have phone coverage where you go caching. That must be neat.

dak's Emu Mob · Post by **dak's Emu Mob** » 22 October 07 4:47 pm

I have no problem about phoning a friend. I don't consider it to be a bad thing. I never call for help after only a five minute 'boy look'. I will have spent at least 30 minutes, usually more. However, here are some reasons I call for help:

<ul>
<li>I have put in a considerable effort to find it. I do a lot of caching with acts2youth group, who is very good at finding them. I'm happy to say that most of our help calls just confirm that the cache is missing, and that we had already looked where the cache was supposed to be. (It doesn't always go that way thoughsometimes we just couldn't find it, despite looking in the right place.

)</li>
<li>In the case of a multicache that has ambiguous questions, for example, "count the fence palings"should the total include gate?, or "count the swings"does it mean sets of swings?, and so on. I'll more readily take the easy way out on those.</li>
<li>If there is a high muggle presence, and I've guessed where the cache is, I sometimes call a previous finder to confirm that I am on the right track, and to determine if it will be possible to retrieve the cache unnoticed. I always protect the integrity of the cache: if I can't get it without giving the game away, I leave the scene, dejected. This happened a couple of times in Brisbane this week.</li>
<li>If I'm a long way from home, and I won't get a chance to come back, I will certainly ring a previous finder for a hint.</li>
</ul>
It seems to me that caches are out there to be found. This doesn't mean that one should necessarily take the path of least resistance to log it. I'll try to ring the owner, if possible, but I don't always have their number. So, I'll ring anyone who can give me a hint. If I've already been there for an hour, I will ask for an outright spoiler.

I hope I'm not spoiling anyone's caching experience by calling help lines. If so, please direct all complaints to /dev/null.

BTW: I'm happy to help anyone who calls me for hints/help. I make my phone number available to anyone who asks for it. It's turned on 24/7, which is sometimes a problem when I receive a call at 1300 Melbourne tine, and I'm in London, where the time is 0400! However, it's my choice to leave the phone on, and I don't really mind the odd call in the wee small hours, when the caller doesn't realise what timezone I'm in. I wouldn't appreciate a call at 0200 when I and the caller are in the same time zone!

Here is my standard signature for geocaching emails:

Cheers,

Dave Kruger (dak) 
dak's Emu Mob 
dak AT emuit DOT com DOT au 
0417 578 437

Geocaching Australia

Wait, are they at work?

Wait, are they at work?

Oh! There goes the $200000 !!