Cache site vandalism

[swampgecko]

There is one very easy solution to all this, If you are that concerned about the effects that could occur from a search for your cache, then you either need to rethink how you have hidden the cache or don't hide one at all.

[pprass]

... If you are that concerned about the effects that could occur from a search for your cache...

You may have misunderstood something along the way. Never said it was my cache.

[caughtatwork]

I tried to point out nicely that the area around any cache placed in bushland or near a lookout or point of interest (or for that matter, any cache) will be flattened by wayward geocachers. It is not an intentional but inevitable side effect of the sport. Just because the coordinates say you are right on top of the cache doesn't mean you will automatically find it. Therein lies the problem. Not immediately finding the cache in the obvious place inevitably means that a wider search will be initiated. Much to the detriment of the surrounding vegetation.
Unfortunately this degredation of the surrounding area attracts the attention of the local (curious) kids. So muggling of caches will happen.
Dunno what the solution is, just keep on caching

A decent hint wouldn't go astray

Caches are (generally) placed in the obvious location. If the obvious location is empty do I go looking further and further, harder and harder or do I assume it's gone?

Some caches are not hidden in the obvious location which adds to the fun of the hunt but results in more destruction as the less obvious places are torn up.

Hints like "it's too easy" are OK if the cache is THERE, but if the cache is gone, is it really too easy, has it gone missing or is the hint something to send you astray?

A hint that er, um, hints at the right location would (IMHO) reduce the need to tear up the area looking for something that may not be there.

[swampgecko]

PPras, I wasn't aiming my comments directly at any one person, I have actually been following this thread closely. If I was I would have stated as much.

My comments were made as general input.

Not only does the cache finder need to be responsible for what happens to the enviroment at a cache site, the cache hider is, in the first case, actually responsible for any enviromental damage that may be caused to an area if they place a cache, because their cache is what is bringing people into the area.

What I have been reading in this thread suggests that some cache placers are not willing to shoulder some of the load in the issue of enviromental damage.

As they say, it takes two to tango, and so to find a cache it needs first someone to hide a cache.


Hmmmm maybe we can take this back further now... lay all the ecodamage in the world at Jeremy's feet......

[pprass]

Yes - I agree with what you and also C@W are pointing out. It is the cache hiders responsibility to a large extent to ensure that the cache is placed where it will not cause cachers to damage the area.

[swampgecko]

I am sure in the early days, when the guidelines were just that, guidelines and not near set in stone rules for geocaching.com, It was stated that if there was enviromental damage occurring to a location, then the cache owner was to remove the cache from that location, but be buggered if I can find it now..

[Papa Bear_Left]

I am sure in the early days, when the guidelines were just that, guidelines and not near set in stone rules for geocaching.com, It was stated that if there was enviromental damage occurring to a location, then the cache owner was to remove the cache from that location, but be buggered if I can find it now..

I now consider myself something of an authority on these rules^H^H^H^H^H guidelines and I think you're right.
There's a new draft of the guidelines being prepared, so I'll have a look and see if this issue is addressed there. It should be, as it's an increasing problem as the number of cachers grows.

[pprass]

.... It was stated that if there was enviromental damage occurring to a location, then the cache owner was to remove the cache from that location...

Excellent - if that is going to be in the new rules, then cachers can advise of damage, just like you can now advise that a cache needs a maintenance check or needs archiving

[Biggles Bear]

.... It was stated that if there was enviromental damage occurring to a location, then the cache owner was to remove the cache from that location...

Excellent - if that is going to be in the new rules, then cachers can advise of damage, just like you can now advise that a cache needs a maintenance check or needs archiving

<P>

[swampgecko]

Thanks for the bait BB, I'll need that next weekend

[If]

Thanks Biggles Bear, a picture is worth a thousand words

[Hounddog]

Geocaching can attract inconsiderate people but, in Australia we are quite lucky. Even the "traffic" to our busiest caches is nothing compared with most of theirs in the U.S. I have heard stories of new walking tracks being carved through national parks in a matter of weeks, because there was a geocache located there, one cache I stumbled across had over a hundred visits in one day, and by the end of the first week the area around it had been completely denuded of all vegetation.

The point I'm making is that geocaching can be quite damaging to the area around it, so it's important to remember this when placing a cache. If the area around it is super fragile or sensitive, then a responsible cacher would not search there let alone place one.

None of us have a crystal ball but we should be able to have a fair idea of what sort of traffic can be expected. I have a cache placed in a fairly sensitive area, but it has only been visited 5 times in five years much as I expected.

Having said all this, we should keep this all in perspective. A lot of people cited the "Rock Hopper" incident as one of the worst cases or area vandalism, but in reality it was a few broken trees in an obscure area of the bush that no one ever visited. A storm in a teacup when you consider how much damage is done by council works in that same park everyday.

Place and search thoughtfully and we'll keep damage to the areas (and our reputation) to a minimum.

BTW The Mut is still here.

[pprass]

I think about that as well Hounddog – it is just a small part of the bush, or garden and there are at times natural phenomena that do more damage in a few moments than a hundred cachers would do in weeks! However I still try and let other cachers find the cache in the same environment as it was originally placed.

As an end note, I loved that episode of the Simpsons which dealt with garbage. As a car passed a native American along a highway, a piece of paper was thrown out and it landed in front of the Indian. He looked at it and tears started to well in his eyes due to his disappointment of how people were treating his land. Then his mate put an arm around him and said “Do yourself a favour and donÂ’t turn aroundÂâ€