Some geocaching history...

[EcoTeam]

For the history buffs:
http://geocaching.gpsgames.org/history/
A teensie weensie bit anti-Jeremy for those who enjoy that stuff too
The links are good too.
In particular I really like the original Dave Ulmer Usenet message which started the sport. The game even to this day still hasn't really changed from his orginal concept:
http://geocaching.gpsgames.org/history/proposal.txt

A tad nasty:
http://geocaching.gpsgames.org/history/ ... buxley.txt

EcoDave

[Bronze]

A very interesting Article. Especially the Australian Interest to combine all cache site into one listing. How awesome would that be.

Can you pick up the hint of Bias in the article. It is well written though and the links are great. i! (or someone in the know) should Email him and list add some of Australia's history into the article. I think it is important that Australia gets a mention since Geocaching and Geocahcing Australia has such strong support and we as cachers are rather dedicated.

The Bronze.

[Lt. Sniper]

Apparently the first Geocacher in Brisbane whos name is Brian works for DSE at there service center, I have been thinking about contacting him since Geocaching has come so far from when he started, also...I want a job there


EDIT: Yes, that site has a biased theme to it, Jeremy is not the word of the day thats for sure

[The Garner Family]

Great article. Not having been in the community for that long, I learnt quite a bit from it.

[aussiecoder]

...[cut]...
A tad nasty:
http://geocaching.gpsgames.org/history/ ... buxley.txt

EcoDave

Hmm, I was quite interested in the comment regarding ownership of the data. As a contract programmer I have always worked on the theory that the person who enters the data owns the data (I guess I'd better check the T&C over at GC.COM, becuase T&C can always vary the rules).

I'm sure GC.COM owns the format (and the web pages), but having not contributed to the content (and across the pacific ocean), I'm unsure how enforcable their ownership of the data would be.

This may become an interesting point if things turn really nasty between GC.COM and GC.COM.AU.


dave

[caughtatwork]

From this post in another thread.

http://forum.geocaching.com.au/viewtopi ... ight#22269

According to gc.com you own the copyright.

[Rey]

What a great article! I too learned a few things from it. Some of the Usenet messages were..interesting.. and particularly the comment from Jeremy that it would never become a 'pay to play' site.
Does anyone know what happened to David Ulmer? is he still involved in the sport or has he 'washed his hands clean' from all this bickering and moved on?

[aussiecoder]

From this post in another thread.

http://forum.geocaching.com.au/viewtopi ... ight#22269

According to gc.com you own the copyright.

Well, I guess GC.COM are screwed. It may be worth having a printed copy of the T&C as they are now in case they "change" before the lawyers get involved. I'd expect all of us who have submitted a cache could demand GC.COM remove it completely if we disagree with their policies.

[Slider & Smurf]

Does anyone know what happened to David Ulmer? is he still involved in the sport or has he 'washed his hands clean' from all this bickering and moved on?

<p>
We've been watching a Washington state geocaching newsgroup for the last couple of months - a Yahoo group similar to the Aussie Cachers and SA Geocachers groups. Before Christmas there was a bit of talk about an Alaskan 'geocaching cruise' with Dave Ulmer on board ...
<p>

Greetings fellow geocachers:
<p>
It is official! The father of Geocaching--the one and only Dave Ulmer- -will be the guest of honor on the 2005 geocaching cruise to Alaska. Attend an afternoon session with Dave and a cocktail party on the ship. Then, go on a geocache hunt with him! For more information go to www.worldwideholidaycruises.com or call 1-800-472-
1767 or e-mail me off the list . This is going to be a great adventure. Stand by for more news!
<p>
Roger (lonelybear)
geocacher5@hotmail.com

<p>
No, we're not planning on going

[TEAM 360]

What a great article! I too learned a few things from it. Some of the Usenet messages were..interesting.. and particularly the comment from Jeremy that it would never become a 'pay to play' site.
Does anyone know what happened to David Ulmer? is he still involved in the sport or has he 'washed his hands clean' from all this bickering and moved on?

The Big Argument between Dave and Jeremy was about which way geocaching was headed. Dave wanted it to be about Virtuals, and Jeremy wanted "the box full of broken McToys"...so they had it out and went their own ways...Dave sold his house in Oregon a few years ago and now travels up and down the West Coast in his RV, staying in the south for the winter months. He still goes geocaching and uses a Magellan Meridian Gold, which he keeps attached to the front handlebars of his 400cc dirt bike, but he does not log his finds online. He was recently here in Arizona for a while, and I got to go geocaching with him, riding on the back of his bike out to a nearby Virtual, and then again, when SETH! (geocacher from Washington state) flew down here to AZ to interview Dave for the geocaching DVD, which came out last month. After the interview we all went out and hit some caches around the Phoenix, AZ area. Dave has also written a very interesting book, which he is shopping around to publishers...

[EcoTeam]

...[cut]...
A tad nasty:
http://geocaching.gpsgames.org/history/ ... buxley.txt

EcoDave

Hmm, I was quite interested in the comment regarding ownership of the data. As a contract programmer I have always worked on the theory that the person who enters the data owns the data (I guess I'd better check the T&C over at GC.COM, becuase T&C can always vary the rules).

I'm sure GC.COM owns the format (and the web pages), but having not contributed to the content (and across the pacific ocean), I'm unsure how enforcable their ownership of the data would be.

This may become an interesting point if things turn really nasty between GC.COM and GC.COM.AU.
dave

The author of a work (in this case the text, HTML, and coords you enter into GC.com) ALWAYS retains the right to their work. No if's no buts. You can't sign it away if you try.
The only exception to this is if you are employed by the person requesting the data (eg, you work for a newspaper).

GC.com don't own any of the cache data, the individuals do. So long as no individual has any problem you you pinching THEIR data, it can be pinched from GC.com and used elsewhere. Actually, the data may actually be deemed public domain seeing as that you freely entered it into another site. If it's on your own web page then no one can touch it.
The problem is HOW you pinch the data from GC.com...

EcoDave

[aussiecoder]

...[cut]...
A tad nasty:
http://geocaching.gpsgames.org/history/ ... buxley.txt

EcoDave

Hmm, I was quite interested in the comment regarding ownership of the data. As a contract programmer I have always worked on the theory that the person who enters the data owns the data (I guess I'd better check the T&C over at GC.COM, becuase T&C can always vary the rules).

The author of a work (in this case the text, HTML, and coords you enter into GC.com) ALWAYS retains the right to their work. No if's no buts. You can't sign it away if you try.

...[cut]...
EcoDave

Ahh, but you can assign copyright to another. Which is the way many muscians have been screwed by their managers and record companies and "others". I frequently sign contracts where I assign copyright of software I develop to the company I am contracted to. In the case where there is no agreement, ownership is automatically with the author or his/her employer. So for me if there is no agreement, my company owns it (and I own the company).

Only one enitity can own the copyright (it cannot be shared) - I've seen this in action too.

[EcoTeam]

...[cut]...
A tad nasty:
http://geocaching.gpsgames.org/history/ ... buxley.txt

EcoDave

Hmm, I was quite interested in the comment regarding ownership of the data. As a contract programmer I have always worked on the theory that the person who enters the data owns the data (I guess I'd better check the T&C over at GC.COM, becuase T&C can always vary the rules).

The author of a work (in this case the text, HTML, and coords you enter into GC.com) ALWAYS retains the right to their work. No if's no buts. You can't sign it away if you try.

...[cut]...
EcoDave

Ahh, but you can assign copyright to another. Which is the way many muscians have been screwed by their managers and record companies and "others". I frequently sign contracts where I assign copyright of software I develop to the company I am contracted to. In the case where there is no agreement, ownership is automatically with the author or his/her employer. So for me if there is no agreement, my company owns it (and I own the company).

Only one enitity can own the copyright (it cannot be shared) - I've seen this in action too.

Under Australian copyright law this is not true in the case of orginal work which you produced yourself of your own accord (i.e. nobody paid you to do it).
As a contractor you might loose the right because you were paid under contract to produce that piece of work.
This is the case with musicians too, they are under contract to produce the work, so they can loose the right. However, if they write the song in their own backyard with no funding and then try to sell it, they can't loose the right to the lyrics. They won't own the actual music because the music company will pay for it to be produced, but the lyricks are still theirs.

I am an occasional freelance non-contracted author and everything I write is my own work, no one pays me to right it. I ALWAYS retain the moral right to reproduce the work, I cannot sign that away, the act says so. I can however assign exclusive or non-exclusive rights to my work, but anyone who buys "exclusive" rights to the work must understand that the author still retains the moral right. Although you do have to be careful not to compete in business with the person you sold the rights too.

There is a big difference between "copyright" and moral rights to a work.

EcoDave

[ideology]

I ALWAYS retain the moral right to reproduce the work, I cannot sign that away, the act says so.

can you please let us know where it says that in the act? the only definition of moral rights we can find is
(a) a right of attribution of authorship; or
(b) a right not to have authorship falsely attributed; or
(c) a right of integrity of authorship.

we think there would not be much point in paying good money for the rights to something if the author is able to continue publishing the work!

[Lt. Sniper]

...[cut]...
A tad nasty:
http://geocaching.gpsgames.org/history/ ... buxley.txt

EcoDave

Hmm, I was quite interested in the comment regarding ownership of the data. As a contract programmer I have always worked on the theory that the person who enters the data owns the data (I guess I'd better check the T&C over at GC.COM, becuase T&C can always vary the rules).

The author of a work (in this case the text, HTML, and coords you enter into GC.com) ALWAYS retains the right to their work. No if's no buts. You can't sign it away if you try.

...[cut]...
EcoDave

Ahh, but you can assign copyright to another. Which is the way many muscians have been screwed by their managers and record companies and "others". I frequently sign contracts where I assign copyright of software I develop to the company I am contracted to. In the case where there is no agreement, ownership is automatically with the author or his/her employer. So for me if there is no agreement, my company owns it (and I own the company).

Only one enitity can own the copyright (it cannot be shared) - I've seen this in action too.

Under Australian copyright law this is not true in the case of orginal work which you produced yourself of your own accord (i.e. nobody paid you to do it).
As a contractor you might loose the right because you were paid under contract to produce that piece of work.
This is the case with musicians too, they are under contract to produce the work, so they can loose the right. However, if they write the song in their own backyard with no funding and then try to sell it, they can't loose the right to the lyrics. They won't own the actual music because the music company will pay for it to be produced, but the lyricks are still theirs.

I am an occasional freelance non-contracted author and everything I write is my own work, no one pays me to right it. I ALWAYS retain the moral right to reproduce the work, I cannot sign that away, the act says so. I can however assign exclusive or non-exclusive rights to my work, but anyone who buys "exclusive" rights to the work must understand that the author still retains the moral right. Although you do have to be careful not to compete in business with the person you sold the rights too.

There is a big difference between "copyright" and moral rights to a work.

EcoDave

You all have too much law on the brain, the only law you need to worry about is the one that pulls you over for doing 75 in a 60 zone.