group raids

[caughtatwork]

You can't cheat in a game that has no rules.

[Geodes]

You can't cheat in a game that has no rules.

What a cop-out

As a respected, old-time, established geocacher with a wide audience it should be your responsibility to encourage high ethical and moral standards.

Oh dear, where will it all end

[pwags]

What would people actually consider to be cheating when it comes to this sort of thing?

Everyone plays differently, so you are only cheating yourself (i.e. your own set of "rules"). Some didn't sign the book on Saturday because they have a different set of "rules" (ethics) to others.

If you've overstepped your own ethical limits, then you've cheated. If you're within your own, but have overstepped someone else's, then you haven't cheated. Simple!

[Geodes]

What would people actually consider to be cheating when it comes to this sort of thing?

Everyone plays differently, so you are only cheating yourself (i.e. your own set of "rules"). Some didn't sign the book on Saturday because they have a different set of "rules" (ethics) to others.

If you've overstepped your own ethical limits, then you've cheated. If you're within your own, but have overstepped someone else's, then you haven't cheated. Simple!

So if your son comes home and tells you he's graffitied the neighbour's front fence because that's ok within his ethical framework, then that's ok with you too? (and these things are rarely simple!)

[caughtatwork]

No, because there's a law against that.

The only rule of geocaching is your name is in the log book.
Call it a cop out if you like, but that's the way it is. I will do as I see fit to enjoy the game as I see fit.
I don't tell you what to do or how to play the game and I expect the same.

This actually IS simple.
http://www.geocaching.com/faq/
What are the rules in Geocaching?
1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.
2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.
3. Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

1. Not applicable.
2. Done.
3. Done.

Please tell me what rules I didn't follow? Huh? There aren't any.
Moral and ethical situations are a side discussion here.
I followed the rules.

[jyetara]

It's Geocaching.

Sheesh...

[Geodes]

No, because there's a law against that.

OK, pick something that's not illegal - like trashing the neighbour's geocaches. The technical legality's not the point.

The only rule of geocaching is your name is in the log book.
Call it a cop out if you like, but that's the way it is. I will do as I see fit to enjoy the game as I see fit.
I don't tell you what to do or how to play the game and I expect the same.

This actually IS simple.
http://www.geocaching.com/faq/
What are the rules in Geocaching?
1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.
2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.
3. Log your experience at http://www.geocaching.com.

1. Not applicable.
2. Done.
3. Done.

Please tell me what rules I didn't follow? Huh? There aren't any.
Moral and ethical situations are a side discussion here.
I followed the rules.

I rather thought ethical and moral considerations were the only discussion here - rules are what get made up in attempt to enforce moral and ethical standards - and it's generally preferable if things don't get to that stage.

[caughtatwork]

You're the one who started with the legality.
What's a "high rated cache"?
A 5/5?
What makes that a "high rated cache"?
The fact that the terrain is high? The difficulty is high?
There is nothing "high quality" about the cache. It even spent 2 years with a needs maintenance on it. I wouldn't call that a high quality cache. The owner was dependent on others to maintain teh cache for him. Where are the morals of maintaining your caches for the benefit others?
What about people who have solved my difficulty 5 cache by asking for hints. Moral lowlifes, that's what they are.

I think someone is having a hissy fit over people finding the cache in a manner that was not envisaged by the owner. He wanted people to suffer the climb. Well tough luck.

I will do what it takes to find and log a cache. If that's hiring a boat rather than swim, did I cheat? What about a helicopter rather than a 3 days walk? If that means hiring a tree guy, then so be it.

What if I deleted my log for last weeke, then pretended I found it next weekend? What if I wrote a stroy about climing the tree to find and log the cache? Would that make anyone feel better?

It's a cache, not the future of the world here.

[Geodes]

You're the one who started with the legality.

I'm not sure what you're referring to - I don't think I've appealed to the rules at any stage

What's a "high rated cache"?
A 5/5?
What makes that a "high rated cache"?
The fact that the terrain is high? The difficulty is high?
There is nothing "high quality" about the cache. It even spent 2 years with a needs maintenance on it. I wouldn't call that a high quality cache. The owner was dependent on others to maintain teh cache for him. Where are the morals of maintaining your caches for the benefit others?
What about people who have solved my difficulty 5 cache by asking for hints. Moral lowlifes, that's what they are.

I think someone is having a hissy fit over people finding the cache in a manner that was not envisaged by the owner. He wanted people to suffer the climb. Well tough luck.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything?

I will do what it takes to find and log a cache. If that's hiring a boat rather than swim, did I cheat? What about a helicopter rather than a 3 days walk? If that means hiring a tree guy, then so be it.

What if I deleted my log for last weeke, then pretended I found it next weekend? What if I wrote a stroy about climing the tree to find and log the cache? Would that make anyone feel better?

It's a cache, not the future of the world here.

Sigh - it's like trying to explain General Relativity to a child

I'm going back to logging yesterday's caches.

[homedg]

What are the rules in Geocaching?
1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.
2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.
3. Log your experience at http://www.geocaching.com.

I have recently stopped logging online.
Am i cheating?

[caughtatwork]

You're the one who started with the legality.

I'm not sure what you're referring to - I don't think I've appealed to the rules at any stage

What's a "high rated cache"?
A 5/5?
What makes that a "high rated cache"?
The fact that the terrain is high? The difficulty is high?
There is nothing "high quality" about the cache. It even spent 2 years with a needs maintenance on it. I wouldn't call that a high quality cache. The owner was dependent on others to maintain teh cache for him. Where are the morals of maintaining your caches for the benefit others?
What about people who have solved my difficulty 5 cache by asking for hints. Moral lowlifes, that's what they are.

I think someone is having a hissy fit over people finding the cache in a manner that was not envisaged by the owner. He wanted people to suffer the climb. Well tough luck.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything?

I will do what it takes to find and log a cache. If that's hiring a boat rather than swim, did I cheat? What about a helicopter rather than a 3 days walk? If that means hiring a tree guy, then so be it.

What if I deleted my log for last weeke, then pretended I found it next weekend? What if I wrote a stroy about climing the tree to find and log the cache? Would that make anyone feel better?

It's a cache, not the future of the world here.

Sigh - it's like trying to explain General Relativity to a child

I'm going back to logging yesterday's caches.

No, it's more like banging your head against a brick wall or witnessing. Both are pointless.
People do what people do, so let people do what people do and you'll feel happier.
I'm not going to do what you think I should do, so maybe it should be let go.
How does what we do affect you? It doesn't. You just want us to follow your moral compass and as far as I am concerned your moral compass is just as faulty as mine.

[caughtatwork]

What are the rules in Geocaching?
1. If you take something from the cache, leave something of equal or greater value.
2. Write about your find in the cache logbook.
3. Log your experience at http://www.geocaching.com.

I have recently stopped logging online.
Am i cheating?

Yes and you should be ashamed of yourself
Of course, that only applies should you hold the same moral compass as I do, but as you don't, then I don't condem you to an eternity of pointless arguments.

[Yurt]

I can see where it would be annoying to see people claiming hard caches they didn't 'earn'. You could consider getting help on mystery/unknown caches in the same bracket. Some are way beyond the ability of many to crack but with a bit of help from a guru or from a previous finder, many are claimed. In the end it is only a hobby I guess, you can get annoyed by such things but what good does it do you? In the case of your finds, you are the only one to judge what is right.

When a group of cachers gets together for one of those "200 caches in a day" runs I assume they all log the same cache based on one of their finds. I can't even begin to comprehend how an individual could find 200 caches in a day. Isn't that a cache every seven or eight minutes for 24 hours?

[homedg]

I have recently stopped logging online.
Am i cheating?
Yes and you should be ashamed of yourself
Of course, that only applies should you hold the same moral compass as I do, but as you don't, then I don't condem you to an eternity of pointless arguments.

ROFL

[Richary]

I have recently stopped logging online.
Am i cheating?

I wouldn't say cheating, and I have known other cachers who also rarely if ever logged online.

That said, as a cache owner, I prefer it if finders do log online so I get the satisfaction of knowing someone has made the effort to find (and hopefully enjoy) a cache I have placed. Yes I could go and visit my hides every few weeks and sit down to read the logbook, but to be honest I would rather be out there finding some new ones myself.

Also I watch the caches I placed when I lived in Adelaide even though these are now "owned" by others and I can't physically check on them. I am still glad when someone writes a log indicating they enjoyed the experience.

So no, it's not cheating not to log your find online. It may be courteous to do so, especially if in your opinion the cache was a really good one. But we each enjoy the hobby in our own way.