Explorist 600 any Findings???

Chwiliwr · Post by **Chwiliwr** » 11 September 05 10:49 pm

If you go past the batteries the one negative I've found with the buying the 600 is the cost of the 3 extra features over the 500. When Gwiber decided to buy a GPS she researched it and decided to buy the 400 over the equivelent Garmin models but after 2 dud ones in a row from 2 different stores (We never did get an explanation of what was going on) I helped her pay the extra for the 500 she now has but consider the 600 not worth it value wise.

If anyone is considering the 600 they need to work out if Electronic compass, Barometer and thermometer and the Barometric Presure Altimeter are worth the extra cost.

I also wonder how much further drain on the batteries they make although the backlight seems to be the worst culprit in that regards. The 500 has lasted me more than 8 hours on full backlight which is the longest I've actually been out of contact with a power source. The longest I've ever had the IPAC/Bluetooth GPS going is about 4 hours but the IPAQ was the problem in this case. The Bluetooth GPS (running on AAA) goes for over 30 hours per set of batteries.

Jessica (Mama Bear Left) · Post by **Jessica (Mama Bear Left)** » 11 September 05 11:13 pm

Hi GIN5IE, Eco-Dave, like quite a few people on the page, is an electronic engineer with quite a few years of experience under his belt. Ideology have an enormous amount of professional IT experience. Mindsocket also. That's the first few who come to mind. Does that give you the idea? Don't underestimate the knowledge and experience of those you are emailing on this page. Lighten up a bit, be more friendly and I suspect you will start to enjoy your interactions with this lovely group more. You are very welcome to share your own opinions, but if you listen a bit to what others say, and don't insist on acting like an expert dealing with ignorant fools when the balance is a little more the other way, you'd probably find you'll get a better reception. I realise you may be used to working with people who put other people down all the time, and feel this is the only way to interact, but honestly, it goes against you with a civilised mob like these cachers.

EcoTeam · Post by **EcoTeam** » 11 September 05 11:30 pm

GIN51E wrote:
Mrs Bear Left wrote:Well, GIN5IE, when you become as high-tech as Eco-team, and as knowledgable and experienced at geocaching(that's geocayching), you may see things from a different and possibly wiser point of view. You may get sick of carrying a spare recharge unit for each of the many high-tech items that some of these top cachers like to take when they go off canyoning, caving, and black waterrafting with a cache or two thrown in. Personally, I like to listen and learn from these guys, instead of arguing with everything they say. But then, I've only been caching for a couple of years and am still learning.
Of course some of it comes down to personal preference: some people get into the habit of charging up either batteries or rechargables in their cars,or at home every time, while others (like me) have trouble forming such useful habits so need something that runs largely on rechargeable batteries with a spare pair of non rechargeables in my backpack

Sure Eco Team has been around for a while longer but there isn't a huge difference between number of finds either.

i'm not exactly new to using a GPS either i've owned one since 1997,

and arguing with them? well they and others are knocking a GPS unit which i own and all i'm simply doing this replying to those posts indicating that i feel there is nothing wrong with the unit and the fact i like and bought it for the fact that it was rechargable, so no i don't think i am arguing with them i'm simply saying my opionions of the unit "considering i actually own one" whilst they are saying what they think of the unit "when they don't even own one"

whats wrong with that?

what if a new user is reading the post and can't work out if they wish to purchase a unit that takes AA's or one which is rechargable? this way they can decide for themself rather then have fellow user's talking them into it and saying that rechargable units shouldn't be on the market.

they say the pro's for AA's
and i say the pro's for rechargables.

if anything to me it sounds like they are the ones arguing, i'm not saying AA units shouldn't be around i'm simply saying from my view i like the rechargable units and have no problems with them whilst they are saying rechargable units are useless.

I'm sorry, I must have missed all the "pro's" you mentioned...

I'm coming from the design side of things, as that's what I am, an electronics designer.
Using a proprietry Lithium Ion battery in any product is a big gamble. Sure, you can get some gains in form factor, weight, and battery life, and that is great for "consumer" items like mobile phones, PDAs (except for geocaching!) and notebooks. But those things don't matter much for a GPS product which is designed for extensive use away from base.

A typical geocacher will carry a GPS, PDA, torch, radios, camera etc and if you used Lithium Ion then each one would most likely need it's own charger solution. That means lots of chargers, lots of cords, lots of spare batteries that don't fit anything else, and lots of batteries to charge before you head out.

Many of us have found the (sensible I would have thought) solution of using one standard battery for all our gear. We have found that very valuable. It just makes so much sense. One battery type and one charger type for everything, that's very very nice. Battery Uptopia

As Chwiliwr said, there are Lithium Ion battery pack replacements for various gear that take standard AA/AAA cells. Yet you won't find it the other way around. Why do you think that is? It's because a lot of people want to use standard batteries!

A *good* product design will use standard cells *and* have internal charging circuitry to give the convenience of an internal proprietry battery solution that can be charged without removing that batteries. It's possible to get the best of both worlds. Magellan chose not to do that with this model and it *will* cost them sales. But likewise, there are people that want Lithium Ion, that's there choice, the new Magellan might be nice for them. However, most Geocachers I know have standardised on AA's or AAA's, and there are many many reasons for that as I have stated.
If you like the Lithium Ion solution then that's great, more power to you (no pun intended).

The only aspect of the new Magellan I am bagging is the choice of battery solution, other than that I'm sure it's a fine GPS.

EcoDave

Hounddog · Post by **Hounddog** » 12 September 05 1:51 am

EcoTeam wrote:
A *good* product design will use standard cells *and* have internal charging circuitry to give the convenience of an internal proprietry battery solution that can be charged without removing that batteries. It's possible to get the best of both worlds. Magellan chose not to do that with this model and it *will* cost them sales.
EcoDave

I once owned a mobile phone that was capable of running on 2 AA cells as well as the normal rechargeable, and found this to be a wonderful idea. Sadly, the idea just doesn't seem to have taken off, perhaps because of the long running times of some mobile phone batteries these days. It would still be good to be able to slip a couple of AA batts into a mobile phone if ever you get caught flat and away from a power source though. Even back then the phone ran for a week on those AAs.

BTW

I am one of those "lost" Magellan customers. I spent a very long time researching which unit to buy and the reasons I outlined are the reasons I chose a Garmin this time. The Map60c so far has turned out to be an excellent unit for my Geocaching and Hiking needs . Especially when loaded with the Turn By Turn software. It's very pricey, but I can now use my GPS as a Car Nav system as well as a Cross Country GPS.
Cool.

ideology · Post by **ideology** » 12 September 05 7:41 am

it sounds like a case of horses for courses. if GIN51E is mainly caching in situations where he/she can recharge the battery, then it's probably fine. if ecodave is doing a multi-day canyon trip, he'll opt for AA batteries instead.

GIN51E · Post by **GIN51E** » 12 September 05 10:15 am

Chwiliwr wrote:If you go past the batteries the one negative I've found with the buying the 600 is the cost of the 3 extra features over the 500. When Gwiber decided to buy a GPS she researched it and decided to buy the 400 over the equivelent Garmin models but after 2 dud ones in a row from 2 different stores (We never did get an explanation of what was going on) I helped her pay the extra for the 500 she now has but consider the 600 not worth it value wise.

If anyone is considering the 600 they need to work out if Electronic compass, Barometer and thermometer and the Barometric Presure Altimeter are worth the extra cost.

I also wonder how much further drain on the batteries they make although the backlight seems to be the worst culprit in that regards. The 500 has lasted me more than 8 hours on full backlight which is the longest I've actually been out of contact with a power source. The longest I've ever had the IPAC/Bluetooth GPS going is about 4 hours but the IPAQ was the problem in this case. The Bluetooth GPS (running on AAA) goes for over 30 hours per set of batteries.

One thing i needed to have was colour so it was really only a choice between the 500 and 600, and when your looking at only $80 or so i felt it was worth spending to get the top model.
the temp guage as i have stated is a little pointless as its reading changes depending on sunlight hitting the unit "also the unit is black" and when you are holding it in your hand its just picking up your body temp,

the barometer is a great feature if you really used it as you have to calibrate it all the time which i often can't be bothered, although the electronic compass i feel is a must and worth the extra $80 odd to get the feature, very useful for when your standning a couple of M from ground zero and you want to know which direction to go you don't need to walk off with the unit to work out the compass heading you just look and see what way it is pointing and take a few steps in that direction, in that way you don't upset the averaging of the unit as much, and can find yourself on GZ much quicker, although it doesn't work very well when standning next to a metal fence or in a car but in those cases you can turn the electronic compass off or do as i do and just look at the sun and moon postion on the compass screen and you then straight away know which direction to travel.

the extra cost was well worth it for me but i can see how other's may not think so, just its my nature to step up and purchase the better item then go cheaper.


As with my response to fellow users in this thread i don't take to well to people saying that the unit shouldn't be on the market and giving it negative feedback when the original post in this thread was asking for info regarding people who have actually used this GPS in which i have where others are just putting their 2cents in on a unit which they do not own.

so of course i'm going to defend the unit in which i am very happy with just as others would defend items they have purchased.

I also know i come accross a little bit strong and often things i say get taken the wrong way but i also like to think that i respond to people in the same manner as they respond to me and from my experience in this life so far just becuase someone has a lot of experience in a certain field doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. it can take a long time to work out if someone actually knows what they are talking about so in the mean time i listen to my own judgement before others.

but if we actually get back to the original post we are talking about feedback from people who actually own and use this unit, in which i do own and use this unit so my feedback is based on my experience with the unit rather then other users who's feedback is based on theory rather then actual experience with this particular unit.

EcoTeam · Post by **EcoTeam** » 12 September 05 10:28 am

Hounddog wrote:I am one of those "lost" Magellan customers. I spent a very long time researching which unit to buy and the reasons I outlined are the reasons I chose a Garmin this time. The Map60c so far has turned out to be an excellent unit for my Geocaching and Hiking needs . Especially when loaded with the Turn By Turn software. It's very pricey, but I can now use my GPS as a Car Nav system as well as a Cross Country GPS.
Cool.

You may have already answered this one... but why didn't you go for the Meridian series? It is big, uses AAs, has mapping, colour display etc

EcoDave

Hounddog · Post by **Hounddog** » 12 September 05 11:29 am

EcoTeam wrote:
You may have already answered this one... but why didn't you go for the Meridian series? It is big, uses AAs, has mapping, colour display etc

EcoDave

Hi Dave.

I like the Meridian series very much, but the units are no longer being manufactured by Magellan. Even GPSOZ has discontinued them. The only one that was available through them was the Gold. I still may get one though, because GPSOZ are offering a trade in price on the old Magellan GPS300 series units. I have an old GPS300 lying around and it's worth 200 dollars off a Meridian Gold.

I guess I just didn't want to be stuck with an obsolete unit, and the whole idea of buying a new GPS was to get the very latest technology. The Explorist was a disappointment for the previously mentioned reasons so I looked at the Garmin.

There are still a few issues with Garmin though, mainly in the software dept'. The rural and walking track maps available still leave a lot to be desired when compared to Mapsend. But if you're prepared to pay the big bickies for the City Navigator software, you do get much better metro maps. I can't understand why Garmin can't seem to get it together for some decent bushwalkers mapping. However there are rumours afoot that a new series of topgraphic mapping is coming.
Heres hoping.

As someone said. It's very much horses for courses when it comes to GPS, but I do agree with you when you say Magellan will lose a lot of sales on the Explorist series.

EcoTeam · Post by **EcoTeam** » 12 September 05 11:49 am

Hounddog wrote:
EcoTeam wrote:
You may have already answered this one... but why didn't you go for the Meridian series? It is big, uses AAs, has mapping, colour display etc

EcoDave
Hi Dave.

I like the Meridian series very much, but the units are no longer being manufactured by Magellan. Even GPSOZ has discontinued them. The only one that was available through them was the Gold. I still may get one though, because GPSOZ are offering a trade in price on the old Magellan GPS300 series units. I have an old GPS300 lying around and it's worth 200 dollars off a Meridian Gold.

Wow, that's news to me.
If Magellan no longer have a top of the line unit without AA's then they have well and truly lost touch with what the market wants.
Typical French company attitude!

EcoDave

ideology · Post by **ideology** » 12 September 05 12:21 pm

ecodave, just because we like AAs doesn't mean that the market does. there is possibly a huge market for a consumer GPS with inbuilt rechargeable batteries. after all, there's a huge market for ipods and mobile phones. and a huge market for 4wds that never get dirty! who knows, one day it might be impossible to get a gps with AA batteries because most of the market will be for people who don't need that functionality.

EcoTeam · Post by **EcoTeam** » 12 September 05 12:42 pm

ideology wrote:ecodave, just because we like AAs doesn't mean that the market does. there is possibly a huge market for a consumer GPS with inbuilt rechargeable batteries. after all, there's a huge market for ipods and mobile phones. and a huge market for 4wds that never get dirty! who knows, one day it might be impossible to get a gps with AA batteries because most of the market will be for people who don't need that functionality.

Unfortunately you may be right!

I'm sure there is a big market for it, GPSs are becoming very "comsumer" oriented. Maybe that's the way Magellan marketing is headed? Don't forget the extra money they can make on spare batteries too.
Garmin seem to be sticking with the AA solution though, and I recon they will win the Geocaching and serious bushwalking "prosumer" market hands down as a result. I personally know very few Geocachers or bushwalkers et.al who don't want a standard battery GPS solution.

Is the writing on the wall for GPSs? are we being overtaken by the consumerites?

I've found it interesting that there seems to be swing in the digital camera market back to models that run on AA's, after many years of proprietry battery solutions.

EcoDave

Hounddog · Post by **Hounddog** » 12 September 05 12:59 pm

ideology wrote:ecodave, just because we like AAs doesn't mean that the market does. there is possibly a huge market for a consumer GPS with inbuilt rechargeable batteries. after all, there's a huge market for ipods and mobile phones. and a huge market for 4wds that never get dirty! who knows, one day it might be impossible to get a gps with AA batteries because most of the market will be for people who don't need that functionality.

Magellan began by aiming their Explorist series squarely at the European market, for travelers who want to know where they are going in foreign cities. Originaly they called them "Explorist Euro". It's quite clear they are chasing a different market these days. Of course a handheld GPS that requires a power source every 14 hours might be useless to the average three day hiker, but apparently that's not where the major sales are. Having said this, they have realised the error of their ways. They are soon to release an "Explorist Maxi" that does have a much larger screen, and they are also looking at dual power abilty. Watch this space.

Garmin on the other hand have got things right from our point of view. They have actually written a Geocaching programme into the firmware of the Map60 series and others, and it's a whole lot of fun to use. The other good thing is the longer running time on AA batteries. The thing really does run for 30 hours on 2 AA's

arthurking83 · Post by **arthurking83** » 15 September 05 12:06 am

GIN51E wrote:

but other then that the unit does everything i've ever wanted it to do and more.

and i don't see how someone can say the unit is a pile of rubbish because it has a rechargable battery? yes fair enough it might not be the best unit to take on a 1 month hiking trip but honestly out of all the GPS user's and not only in geocaching how many people are away from a main's power supply or 12v supply in a car or boat for more then a day?

so i think it would be suitable to the majority of GPS user's which don't spend their time walking for days on end in which a AA option would be best suited

That's the point of the battery comment! That if you need to rely on the possibility of no power for days on end then this unit will be severly limited in its use!!
Just because YOU don't do that kind of thing, doesn't mean that no-else does! Because they obviously do!
The other point of the batteries was the point you brought up Ginsie!!
$35 For a battery that should really cost about $10!!
If they were AA rechargeables they would cost you about $10 for some 2400mAh not $35 for 1300mAh.

Battery decision by magellan was totally lame

16 colors was a no-brainer! 16 colors is enough on a GPS, 256 is a waste, unless you need 4 shades of pink!

Hounddog · Post by **Hounddog** » 15 September 05 1:18 pm

Actually, having 4 shades of pink available is not that silly when you consider the use of contour topography and the need for more and more terrain information. If you have ever used topographic maps, you will know that there are contour lines used in different shades of pink/red to indictate the graduations. Different shades of green to indicated the varying density of vegetation in parklands etc. Different shades of blue to indicate ocean and river depths and hazards. I think I have just about used up 16 colours just there. Then there is the myriad of symbols and other information needed to inform drivers for road navigation. Cadastral information needs another set of colours, the list goes on. To me, having more colours available for these purposes makes more sense than having less.

Geodes · Post by **Geodes** » 15 September 05 1:50 pm

It's interesting to use the mobile phone analogy - who HASN'T had the situation where the phone battery is flat when you need to use it.

On the other hand, who'd like to be continually changing batteries in their mobile phone - much easier to just plug in a charger or stick on a cradle (as long as you remember to).

Car charging is a bit of a pain - in my Patrol, the lighter only works with the ignition on, and if you've been away from mains power for a few days, all your rechargeable items (GPS, camera, phone, etc) are getting low and it really isn't covenient to try to charge them all from the car.

Bob

PS A bit off topic, but you can recharge alkalines if you have a <A HREF=http://www.latestbuy.com.au/rezap_charg ... .htm>Rezap Battery Doctor</A>