[OT] Motherboard selection. Tips anyone?

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stealth_ninja_penguin
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[OT] Motherboard selection. Tips anyone?

Post by stealth_ninja_penguin » 30 January 09 10:26 pm

My computer is getting long in the tooth so I thought about building a new one. After spending time playing high end games like Pacman and Galaxian and using ultra high end graphics programs such as 'MS Paint', it's time to upgrade to something can can handle these programs and a little bit more :P

I'm planning on having a computer which can run Photoshop, AutoCAD, do video and audio editing, record and playback TV, playback audio to the 5.1 THX stereo via optical or digital coaxial cable, the odd gaming session (don't care too much about that, what I got does good enough for that so don't need to plan my decisions on that) and basic word processing.

So, I guess it starts with the motherboard. I'm not a computer tech-head so some basic advice would be nice.
I've been looking at something like the Asus P5N SLI or the P5KPL-1600 which, as I understand, has a higher FSB. I prefer Intel so will probably run a E7400 with it. Don't understand the755/ 1366 pin stuff but I have a limit to what I can spend. I'm not interested in over clocking the motherboard (yet).

Also I hope to Dual boot it and run Windows XP for what I have to and start to (properly) explore the world of Linux based stuff thru Ubuntu. The plan is to use Windows as little as possible.

Some general tips on brands, essentials to include, hype to ignore etc would be great.
Thanx in advance, Stealth :wink:

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setsujoku
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Post by setsujoku » 30 January 09 11:04 pm

Have you considered having just a linux install, and running a virtual machine for those times that you need windows? Or once you get more comfortable with linux, you could try your hand at wine, and that may even remove the need for you to have windows at all

One tip (well actually 2 in this paragraph), get a 64 bit system, and throw as much RAM as you can at it whilst its cheap.
Disk storage is cheap at the moment, so you should be able to get more than enough storage space for all those penguin pics

As far as motherboard goes, stick with a reputable brand, and find a board that has all the features you are looking for, and you will be safe

Try not to rely on on-board video, as that wont perform as well, and will eat out of your physical memory (RAM). I have a $85 video card in my linux home theater box, and its more than enough. It runs HDTV, which is fairly intensive, but the old on board card I used struggled a bit.

Depending on what quality audio you are after will depend on whether you go for a separate sound card or not. A reasonable one will set you back about $100.

If you need a place to go to buy the parts, you can't really go past MSY for price, if you already know what you want. Their service (and english) isn't the best, but their prices make up for that

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Post by stealth_ninja_penguin » 30 January 09 11:59 pm

setsujoku wrote:Have you considered having just a linux install, and running a virtual machine for those times that you need windows? Or once you get more comfortable with linux, you could try your hand at wine, and that may even remove the need for you to have windows at all
Yeah I think I'll still need to dance with the devil and use Windows quite a bit.
One tip (well actually 2 in this paragraph), get a 64 bit system, and throw as much RAM as you can at it whilst its cheap.
Disk storage is cheap at the moment, so you should be able to get more than enough storage space for all those penguin pics
64 bit - Please Explain? I thought 64 bit was crash central and a bit of a problem with some Windows stuff. I was planning 4GB of Ram and If the budget allows 1TB storage but no less than 500GB
As far as motherboard goes, stick with a reputable brand, and find a board that has all the features you are looking for, and you will be safe
So what are the reputable brands?
Try not to rely on on-board video, as that wont perform as well, and will eat out of your physical memory (RAM). I have a $85 video card in my linux home theater box, and its more than enough. It runs HDTV, which is fairly intensive, but the old on board card I used struggled a bit.
Trying to avoid a separate video card because of the cost but will consider it.
Depending on what quality audio you are after will depend on whether you go for a separate sound card or not. A reasonable one will set you back about $100.
I like QUALITY music. None of this MP3 bullshh..dust. I want to put my CDs to FLAC.
If you need a place to go to buy the parts, you can't really go past MSY for price, if you already know what you want. Their service (and english) isn't the best, but their prices make up for that
Yeah MSY are pretty good for price but I find their service and advice not so good. They are a good facilitator of getting products to people if you know what you want which is the bit that I'm working on at the moment.

I liked the P5KPL-1600 because of the higher bus speed, it has more of a dedicated Intel board and because of the on board sound & video. If I should get add on video and sound cards then should I just be looking for a bare bones board with decent motherboard features (ie. FSB, cache, input/ outputs)? I would have thought that on board sound and video is a bit more powerful and more truly integrated that days of old?

Just to clarify, I'm not looking to build a 2 grand box that'll out do a $1,900 box on a bench test in lab conditions. AutoCAD and graphics are the things that kill my current computer so they need to be handled well by a new one. Budget I hear you ask? $600. $700 tops which should include a DVD-RW. I have the rest.

Thanks for the tips. Much appreciated. Keep 'em coming. :wink:

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Post by setsujoku » 02 February 09 11:29 am

stealth_ninja_penguin wrote:Yeah I think I'll still need to dance with the devil and use Windows quite a bit.
Fair enough, then probably going with Windows and a Linux Virtual Machine might be the better way to go.
stealth_ninja_penguin wrote: 64 bit - Please Explain? I thought 64 bit was crash central and a bit of a problem with some Windows stuff. I was planning 4GB of Ram and If the budget allows 1TB storage but no less than 500GB
Most of the systems up until now have been 32bit systems. 64 bit systems perform better, and will give you a bit more grunt, and now that there is more support for things like drivers, software, etc, its more viable to run 64bit Operating Systems. If you plan on running Vista, then you will be safe with a 64bit OS, and its still able to run those 32bit apps, as there aren't quite as many software vendors producing 64bit versions of their products yet.

By going 64bit you open up the potential for more RAM, above the 4GB limit. If you have a 32bit system and place 4GB in it, you will find that only ~3GB will be available to the system. If you place the same 4GB into a 64bit system, it will have the full 4GB available to it

Yeah the price of storage now is cheap, and a 500GB drive can be had for under $100
stealth_ninja_penguin wrote:So what are the reputable brands?
Gigabyte, Asus, MSI (though they tend to be lower quality and hence cheaper)
stealth_ninja_penguin wrote:Trying to avoid a separate video card because of the cost but will consider it.
I guess the option is then to go with on board for now, and when money allows for it go with a separate card. If you're after the grunt for CAD, etc, then removing the processing of video from the CPU, and shifting it to a dedicated card will help the cause. Guess that if you're getting a new system, then anything will seem faster than what you deal with now, so it might not matter too much to you :D
stealth_ninja_penguin wrote:I like QUALITY music. None of this MP3 bullshh..dust. I want to put my CDs to FLAC.
Probably the same deal as the video card, having the separate card will shift the audio processing to the dedicated device, and since its dedicated to just doing that, it will produce better quality audio. Might pay to see if the onboard is up to your standards, and review from there if the budget doesn't allow for it
stealth_ninja_penguin wrote:Yeah MSY are pretty good for price but I find their service and advice not so good. They are a good facilitator of getting products to people if you know what you want which is the bit that I'm working on at the moment.

Yep its the trade off, but like you said if you have done your research on here, and know what you want, then life isn't so hard
stealth_ninja_penguin wrote:I liked the P5KPL-1600 because of the higher bus speed, it has more of a dedicated Intel board and because of the on board sound & video. If I should get add on video and sound cards then should I just be looking for a bare bones board with decent motherboard features (ie. FSB, cache, input/ outputs)? I would have thought that on board sound and video is a bit more powerful and more truly integrated that days of old?

On board is better than it used to be, but some vendors still do it the old way, and it hogs the system. The hard part is that quite often the bare bones board without the on board stuff isn't as feature rich. I guess its just going to be a matter of that balance of whether you do get separate video and sound, or go with the on board stuff. Given your price range, it would probably be better to go with on board for now
stealth_ninja_penguin wrote:Just to clarify, I'm not looking to build a 2 grand box that'll out do a $1,900 box on a bench test in lab conditions. AutoCAD and graphics are the things that kill my current computer so they need to be handled well by a new one. Budget I hear you ask? $600. $700 tops which should include a DVD-RW. I have the rest.

Thanks for the tips. Much appreciated. Keep 'em coming. :wink:

If you don't need to buy a case, then you will be ok with that price range, and get a reasonable system. If you need a case, then that will take a bit of a chunk out of the budget, as you will want to get a reasonable one that wont just hold all the hot air inside of it :D

The other part to consider if you are going to run windows, is the cost of the licence for Vista. Granted you will be able to get an OEM version, but its still going to cost a bit

A quick bit of maths shows that you should be able to build a decent system with room to move in the future for things like more RAM, video, sound, CPU, etc :D

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Post by Crisp image » 02 February 09 12:10 pm

Of course if the power suply in your old machine is a 20 pin connector you may find that you need to purchase a new one as most of the new MB need a 24 pin connector.
For video editing, as much ram and hard disk storage you can get. As for video a high end graphics card is really only needed to play high end games. For Photoshop auto cad and video editing you will not notice the slower redraw on the standard cards.
Good luck with it all.
Regards
Crisp Image

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Post by stealth_ninja_penguin » 02 February 09 10:11 pm

Everyone wrote: Everything!
Thanks guys for your tips. 64 bit looks doable with 24 pin connector.

I hadn't factored in an OS into the $700 budget. I haven't yet found any techie (or anyone) that has ANYTHING positive to say about Vista so the thought of having to pay for it is scary. Maybe try Windows 7 Beta?

Any suggestions on where to look (on the net) for info on cases and motherboards in lay terms? I've looked at a few reviews but they don't tell me too much practical info. Just over my head tech stuff. The motherboard I mentioned was not an informed choice, rather a half informed one so any suggestions? And the case I selected was based on the MSY professional 1 pack. Again, I'm not after paying double for a small percentage increase. I'm just after a case that'll do the job effectively and practically.

Thanks again for your comments (they've been quite helpful). Keep 'em coming and I'll keep researching too.
Stealth :wink:

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Post by team unicycle » 03 February 09 9:05 am

setsujoku wrote:Yeah the price of storage now is cheap, and a 500GB drive can be had for under $100
$89 at MSY. The best price per GB is the Seagate 1.5TB
setsujoku wrote:I guess the option is then to go with on board for now, and when money allows for it go with a separate card. If you're after the grunt for CAD, etc, then removing the processing of video from the CPU, and shifting it to a dedicated card will help the cause. Guess that if you're getting a new system, then anything will seem faster than what you deal with now, so it might not matter too much to you :D
The on-board video cards do a lot of processing these days, just not as much as you can get with add-on boards. I wouldn't worry about it, as long as the mother board has a slot for one.
stealth_ninja_penguin wrote:I like QUALITY music. None of this MP3 bullshh..dust. I want to put my CDs to FLAC.
Personally, I find mp3 produces better sound, but then I have a rather limiting inbuilt (in me) low-pass filter.

I can't offer any advice on a mother board, but when you buy the wrong one, post here so I know not to make the same mistake :D

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Post by The Coffee's » 12 February 09 10:00 pm

I have always had a liking for Gigabyte motherboards, and they offer good tech support for any problems that may arise. I am in the process of replacing a old GA533 motherboard and I will most likely try to find a second hand 600 series socket 478

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Post by stealth_ninja_penguin » 12 February 09 10:19 pm

Mr.Coffee and the Clan wrote:I have always had a liking for Gigabyte motherboards, and they offer good tech support for any problems that may arise. I am in the process of replacing a old GA533 motherboard and I will most likely try to find a second hand 600 series socket 478
I might be about to undergo a negative employee outcome due to the 'economic crisis' so it's on hold for now but I can still research them. I'll check out Gigabyte's offerings. Thanks.

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Post by stevenwill » 12 February 09 10:41 pm

You might also want to have a look at Tom's hardware guide - under motherboards - always good reading.

Steve

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Post by Jezzza_Xtreme » 19 February 09 6:21 pm

Hi.

I can vouch for getting a sound card. I recently got a Sound Blaster X-Fi Pro to go with my new speakers, and I can say with certainty there is a clear difference in clarity and vibrancy. If you are a audiophile then you will definitely need a sound card, though you did mention that you would be happy with optical out in which case you would just need to get a motherboard with that capability, and quite a lot (including mine) come with that feature.

On the topic of Vista and x64, I can only say good things. I have been running vista since it came out and have recently moved to 64-bit with no ill effects whatsoever. No compatibility issues. I honestly can't see why people are always complaining about vista.

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Post by stealth_ninja_penguin » 01 April 09 2:37 pm

OK, I reckon I've a hardware package that I'm reasonably happy with. I reckon I'll just run Vista and Virtual Machine to Linux for the time being. But;
What about setting up the hard drive/s :?: I've had a chat to a couple of people who have suggested, 2 hard drives raid mirroring, 2 hard drives striping and 3 hard drives striping (thus allowing file recovery). Another option suggested is running one drive as the OS (and programs) and the other as file storage. The benefit is that you can wipe the drive with the OS and reload the OS if it gets slow (/ virus/ spyware ect) without affecting your files. No back-up though. I'd hate to lose all my photos and music and other things that I only have stored electronically. Keeping in mind that the exercise is not to spend as much money as you can, what do youse suggest?

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Post by Udderchaos » 02 April 09 1:31 pm

well i run 2x500g drives and keep my important stuff on both

i use system scheduler (free download i think) to do automatic backups say weekly.

also keep them somewhere else in case ur house burns down :)

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Post by CanSolo » 03 April 09 6:58 pm

stealth_ninja_penguin wrote:
I hadn't factored in an OS into the $700 budget. I haven't yet found any techie (or anyone) that has ANYTHING positive to say about Vista so the thought of having to pay for it is scary. Maybe try Windows 7 Beta?
I have used Vista for over a year now, mind you on a top of the range Dell XPS M1730 laptop, and do not have an issue with it. The main issue with Vista was bad press and very slack companies, such as Nvidia not writing drivers for it early enough. It's not the evil OS that everyone makes it out to be

From all accounts 7 is meant to be the bees knees, compared to Vista, and i will soon head that way, in 64 bit once it is out. Check and see if there is the possibility of a cheap upgrade path to 7, rather than cough up on Vista now and pay again by the end of the year for 7

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Post by stealth_ninja_penguin » 27 June 09 11:02 am

Has anyone got any thoughts on the MSI P965 Platinum motherboard? It sounds a bit old tech in some areas but was quite good 3 years ago (a lifetime in computer years) The on board sound card seems to be the thing that holds it back for me.

I'm waiting for windows 7 to come out but certainly not looking forward to the price of it :cry:

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