Approval for GCA caches

Discussion about the Geocaching Australia web site

Should GCA caches be approved

yes
15
45%
no
18
55%
 
Total votes: 33

Mix
450 or more roots tripped over
450 or more roots tripped over
Posts: 1399
Joined: 30 October 03 9:20 pm

Post by Mix » 07 October 06 10:18 pm

ideology wrote:
the main fuzzy area is probably not requiring approvals. we believe that the cache owner should be responsible for the cache, not the listing site. we welcome your thoughts on this.
Mix wrote:How about self-approval? (or call it self-review) <br>
As you hide a cache you then go through a checklist, your yes/no answers are viewable and if you lie finders will soon tell other seekers. <br>
This means for example: <br>
I check ‘noÂ’ Is this cache on private land? And “noÂâ€

User avatar
riblit
It's the journey.
It's the journey.
Posts: 3444
Joined: 04 April 03 6:30 pm
Location: Land Grant of John Campbell

Post by riblit » 07 October 06 10:51 pm

GIN51E asked a question or two a bit back in this thread.
Now if you still say caches being reviewed will not improve overall quality then why are you a reviewer? whats the point in GC.com having guidlines?
The guidelines are there because the owners of Groundspeak Inc., the company that owns geocaching.com have decreed that in order to be listed on that site, caches must meet minimum requirements with regard to maintainability, location (with respect to prohibited places, not scenic beauty), distance from other caches etc. Some of these are in response to local (American) laws with respect to placing caches on city owned property etc, others, like the dropping of movable caches and the restriction on the amount of coordinate "juggling" that can be applied after a cache is listed came from a requirement that all locations be checked to ensure they were not too close to railway lines, schools, under or on bridges, on private property, in shops etc. Descriptions have to be checked to ensure they were not commercial in nature, did not push an agenda, did not solicit, etc.
All this helps to ensure that the company is seen to be a good 'corporate citizen' and reduces the chance of the owners being sued for negligence in the event someone is hurt or killed. Remember, behind the website is a for profit company, not a collection of individuals.

Yes, I know there are disclaimers all over the place saying the listing is the cache owner's responsibility, however it could be argued that the action of reviewing the listings places some responsibity on the listing site.

You might have noticed that the word "approved" has been replaced with either "reviewed" or "listed" in most documents. The above is one of the reasons for the wording chance.

Seeing that all caches listed there have to go through a review process there is a choice of having local reviewers who understand local conditions or an overseas reviewer who may know very little of the country. The local reviewers believe that having someone local is a better proposition for Australian caching.
As if they don't help fix the above concerns then whats the point.

Point of reviewing? Because the company that runs the site want it.

User avatar
TeamBeanDare
200 or more found
200 or more found
Posts: 119
Joined: 19 July 05 1:34 am
Location: Australind WA
Contact:

Post by TeamBeanDare » 07 October 06 11:57 pm

What is this web site?
This web site is a forum for Australian geocachers to exchange ideas and a central listing and stats resource for Australian and New Zealand players.
A quote from the FAQ..

If we're to become "like" the other site, why would people use this one?

Even though I haven't placed any caches on GCA I do have plans for caches that won't be approved on GC due mainly to "distance issues".

User avatar
riblit
It's the journey.
It's the journey.
Posts: 3444
Joined: 04 April 03 6:30 pm
Location: Land Grant of John Campbell

Post by riblit » 08 October 06 11:02 am

TeamBeanDare wrote: Even though I haven't placed any caches on GCA I do have plans for caches that won't be approved on GC due mainly to "distance issues".
The original idea on this site was that a cacher had enough common sense to be able to work out is a cache hide is safe and legal without having someone second guess him/her, and as a facility to list caches such as movables and virtuals that were no longer listable on gc.com It was not envisioned that it become a "dumping ground" for caches that would not meet approval on gc.com. If you can't convince a gc.com reviewer that you can maintain or arrange maintenance a cache outside your normal caching area you really should ask yourself whether you should list the cache at all. Cache maintenance is an owner responsibility that does not change with a change in listing sites. This site assumes you have a valid plan, the other site asks you to describe it.

User avatar
Papa Bear_Left
800 or more hollow logs searched
800 or more hollow logs searched
Posts: 2573
Joined: 03 April 03 12:28 am
Location: Kalamunda, WA
Contact:

Post by Papa Bear_Left » 08 October 06 12:42 pm

zactyl wrote:
CraigRat wrote:
GIN51E wrote:I'm still waiting for someone to say HOW approval makes a cache better quality!!
The last couple of Groundspeak caches "approved" locally were a plastic fruit container on the side of the road at a litter lined lookout (with nothing worth looking at) and a probably wonderful cache with incorrect coordinates that was actually 98 kilometres away. The second one looked okay on the map, but turned out to be someone's backyard.
Approval in its current form on the Groundspeak site doesn't improve cache quality. (The above example shows it doesn't even prevent caches being put on private property without the owners approval! :P )
You oughta see the list before we let 'em loose!
About 5% of submitted caches probably wouldn't meet the recommendations for a GCA listing either. Typos in coords are common (somewhere in the Pacific or in someone's house)

5% mightn't sound like much, but that's fice to ten per week! We miss some of them, of course (as per the above example) but it's kind of reassuring to me as a cacher that at least SOMEone's seen the listing before I go looking for it!

User avatar
TeamBeanDare
200 or more found
200 or more found
Posts: 119
Joined: 19 July 05 1:34 am
Location: Australind WA
Contact:

Post by TeamBeanDare » 08 October 06 2:21 pm

The original idea on this site was that a cacher had enough common sense to be able to work out is a cache hide is safe and legal without having someone second guess him/her,
So why are we having this discussion?
If you can't convince a gc.com reviewer that you can maintain or arrange maintenance a cache outside your normal caching area you really should ask yourself whether you should list the cache at all.
Have you tried lately. I haven't. I've heard a lot of stories from other cachers though. I do agree that caches need to be maintained, but how are we supposed to place caches in an area with no caches if the only way to prove it will be maintained is by caching in the area. This works well in the caches dense areas of the world but here in WA there are great open spaces with no caches at all.

User avatar
CraigRat
850 or more found!!!
850 or more found!!!
Posts: 7015
Joined: 23 August 04 3:17 pm
Twitter: CraigRat
Facebook: http://facebook.com/CraigRat
Location: Launceston, TAS
Contact:

Post by CraigRat » 08 October 06 2:32 pm

TeamBeanDare wrote:
The original idea on this site was that a cacher had enough common sense to be able to work out is a cache hide is safe and legal without having someone second guess him/her,
So why are we having this discussion?
Exactly.

The people making the most noise are in general not frequent hiders or finders on this site. Really all this stems from someone getting the hump over a GCA cache being placed near a GC one.

All this circular discussion we've been having has been healthy but in the end I doubt much will change. Nor should it.

The notion that GCA should be some kind of slightly diluted GC misses the whole point of this site.

No-one is forcing anyone to do caches here, and the people associated with this site don't demand (or expect) that people using this sites other facilites list here...

Freedom, baby.

User avatar
caughtatwork
Posts: 17017
Joined: 17 May 04 12:11 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Post by caughtatwork » 08 October 06 4:30 pm

riblit wrote:I'm not in favour of an arbitrary minimum find limit. A lot of beginning cachers put a lot more thought into their cache description and hide than some 'seasoned' cachers. How about a mentoring process where a hide by a cacher with a low hide/find count is flagged for looking at by an experienced cacher. Not to approve it for listing but to offer constructive criticism if needed.
It would be quite easy to flag a cache (on the cache page) as one having been hidden by someone who has less than x GCA hides. Say a "Community Feedback Welcomed" flag.

The flag would be dynamically generated so when said hider hit a "mark" the "Community Feedback Welcomed" flag would be turned off.

That way finders could post some constructive comments in their find or DNF logs to help the hider.

One trick is that some very experienced cachers could be caught by this flag.

ribilt as an example: If we used 5 hides before we turned off the "Community Feedback Welcomed" then until ribilt hid one more, each of their caches at GCA would display the "Community Feedback Welcomed" flag.

Would this really help anyone?
Would this provide an indication to seekers that they may be looking for a "newbie" hide?
Do people feel comfortable logging finds or DNF's with CONSTRUCTIVE feedback embedded without getting all SNARKY?
Do experienced cachers with less than 5 GCA hides mind having this plastered across their cache listing (actually it would be discreet, not emblazoned(?
Do people who have hidden 20 GCA caches only hide "good ones"?

Thoughts for the community.

User avatar
Cached
2500 or more caches found
2500 or more caches found
Posts: 3087
Joined: 24 March 04 4:32 pm
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Contact:

Post by Cached » 08 October 06 4:44 pm

what if the hider had the option to add the flag?

So it wasn't automatic, and the hider could choose it to be on or off for any cache hide?

User avatar
Papa Bear_Left
800 or more hollow logs searched
800 or more hollow logs searched
Posts: 2573
Joined: 03 April 03 12:28 am
Location: Kalamunda, WA
Contact:

Post by Papa Bear_Left » 08 October 06 7:16 pm

CraigRat wrote:The notion that GCA should be some kind of slightly diluted GC misses the whole point of this site.
Then why is it called (othersite).au? If that's not associating with the GC site, what is?

I can vouch for the fact that muggles assume that .com and .com.au are really the same thing. My recent discussions with a local council and wetlands' friends group showed that up, and I had to walk a fine line between assuring them that I could make sure that gc.com caches would follow the rules, without getting their backs up too much by pointing out that there was no way of controlling what went onto GCA.

I doubt there's quite the same confusion with navicaching or terracaching.

User avatar
caughtatwork
Posts: 17017
Joined: 17 May 04 12:11 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Post by caughtatwork » 08 October 06 7:55 pm

Bear_Left wrote:
CraigRat wrote:The notion that GCA should be some kind of slightly diluted GC misses the whole point of this site.
Then why is it called (othersite).au? If that's not associating with the GC site, what is?

I can vouch for the fact that muggles assume that .com and .com.au are really the same thing. My recent discussions with a local council and wetlands' friends group showed that up, and I had to walk a fine line between assuring them that I could make sure that gc.com caches would follow the rules, without getting their backs up too much by pointing out that there was no way of controlling what went onto GCA.

I doubt there's quite the same confusion with navicaching or terracaching.
Geocaching.com and Groundspeak are trademarks of Groundspeak, Inc. Copyright 2003.

Geocaching is not a trademarked term. It is a generic term for "a type of scavenger hunt for waterproof containers bearing treasure using the containers' exact geographic coordinates and Global Positioning System devices"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/geocaching

geocaching.com.au is the Australian flavour of geocaching worldwide.

http://www.geocaching.de/
http://www.geocaching.nl/
http://www.geocache.co.uk/
news:alt.rec.geocaching

This doesn't take into account any of the various state or region specific sites in the US, of which there are many.

User avatar
Cached
2500 or more caches found
2500 or more caches found
Posts: 3087
Joined: 24 March 04 4:32 pm
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Contact:

Post by Cached » 08 October 06 8:09 pm

Geocaching is not a trademarked term.
Bet it would be if they'd been able to!

Horus
Totally Clueless(tm)
Posts: 779
Joined: 28 March 03 8:05 pm
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Contact:

Post by Horus » 08 October 06 9:15 pm

Geocaching is not a trademarked term.
Oh yes it is!
Cached wrote: Bet it would be if they'd been able to!
I think you will find Jeremy has tied that one up already - there was some talk a few years ago about him trademarking the name. But it was to cover the sales of his merchandise I think and not to stop people from using the name in general - but I'm guessing he can if he wants to

:evil:

User avatar
caughtatwork
Posts: 17017
Joined: 17 May 04 12:11 pm
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Post by caughtatwork » 08 October 06 9:25 pm

Doubt that he can.

He hasn't vigorously defended his trade mark against anyone else using it, so in effect he's lost it.

User avatar
CraigRat
850 or more found!!!
850 or more found!!!
Posts: 7015
Joined: 23 August 04 3:17 pm
Twitter: CraigRat
Facebook: http://facebook.com/CraigRat
Location: Launceston, TAS
Contact:

Post by CraigRat » 08 October 06 9:34 pm

caughtatwork wrote:Doubt that he can.

He hasn't vigorously defended his trade mark against anyone else using it, so in effect he's lost it.
Yet..... <evil laugh>Muhahahahahahhahahahaahah</evil laugh>

I really must lay off the caffeine

Post Reply