(dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

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caughtatwork
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(dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by caughtatwork » 24 March 22 11:48 am

There have been some conversations and questions over time about the restriction of moveables continuing to add dragonZone points each time they are found by the same geocacher.

The dragonZone game was set up to encourage people to play at Geocaching Australia but it was restricted to physical geocaches.

Geocaching Australia don't have any technology restrictions on finding a geocache multiple times. In fact, it is encouraged for people to find moveable geocaches as many times as they encounter them as they are not in the same location so each find is a "new find".

However, it seems (please correct me or add to any concerns when you post) that moveables seem to travel in packs. This seems due to the fact that they can be used to boost your own dragonZone points by finding then "again and again". This is especially true at events where they are placed on a table for everyone to "find" again before they are put into a box and transported to the "next event" without really moving as they were intended.

This thread is an open conversation to discuss whether moveable geocaches should only apply dragonZone points ONCE per geocacher find or some other idea to roll back some of the behaviour of how moveables have become "point banks".

There is no guarantee of change. It also doesn't mean that 10 posts by 1 person will outweigh 5 posts by 5 different people. We want to encourage a conversation but typically those who want change tend to make the loudest squeak so all things will be considered before any final outcome is decided.

So have at it. Make your point and we'll have a conversation.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by Just a cacher » 24 March 22 5:04 pm

I think they move in packs because it's easy. One hiding spot (or hand on to another person), rather than finding 15 new hiding spots. It could be the points for other cachers, of course...

However, it's a bit like 'shooting fish in a barrel' to pick up a movable, and find it has a pack of cards in it (or similar) and each one is a cache. I'd like to eliminate that sort of cache. (But I can't resist logging them once I have them in my hand. :( ) We saw a fair bit of that sort of thing during the Bingo race game, but there's a new fashion for multiple caches in one container, or in a big bag, I've noticed.

I guess there might be fewer like this if each cache had to have a log of some sort. The 'pack of cards' type of cache tends to have no place to write your name.


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Richary
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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by Richary » 24 March 22 8:07 pm

I don't really believe Dragonzone points are a concern for most players, it is more about number of finds. So if I find 50 moveables at an event (though that is less common these days) then that is 50 finds that add to my total. And yes I agree with the point that if I find a bunch of moveable caches at one spot am I actually going to go out and find a number of different hiding spots for them - which if good spots I could place a regular cache at anyway? Though I admit some of them ended up behind a boring tree stump over the road from me which has no merit as a geocaching location but was convenient for other locals to pick up from. I have also found others left on my front step years ago when the first gnome race was on, or in the front garden.

I can see some logic behind removing moveable caches from Dragonzone, as if a bunch move around then zone control would change constantly.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by Now_To_Morrow » 25 March 22 5:38 am

I have noticed moveable caches are often used to change a dZ zone control. I do this myself. I have also noticed bags of moveables being held in one person's possession till they can add enough points to use them to change a dZ zone control. I have also had one of my own moveables passed from one person to another from the same clan in a kind of circle a number of times, each one adding many dZ points each time. When the latter happened years ago I first realised what logging a moveable multiple times could do. It was then that I decided to only find them once. Since then, if I have found a plastic bag on the side of the road with a bunch of moveables in it (I've found that a couple of times), if I've found one of them before then I just note it as found and picked up.

So my vote is with restricting the number of times you can find or add dZ points to them. The only problem with that then is the chance that a lot of the moveables currently in play may end up left for dead where they are because they are useless to the ones who have been using them just for dZ points, dZ zone changes, or research points.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by Luckyl10n » 25 March 22 11:06 am

I would support a proposal which restricts the allocation of dZ points to first find on any cache type, although moveables seem to be the cache type where I see problems occurring as described in the previous posts.

I don't think that being unable to allocate additional dZ points to take control of moveables is an issue or is likely to see moveables abandoned. Quite the contrary, it may require a more tactical approach and encourage cachers playing dZ to collect moveables and shift them in order to take control of a zone etc. I also anticipate a reduction in the number of "Bag of cache" type moveables and their circulation with this approach, although I don't expect they will disappear completely. I think that moveables will also continue to move in packs, but tactics are also likely to affect this as moveables are collected and split up to change control of zones etc.

I would wholeheartedly support this change to dZ and hope that it will reinvigorate interest and competition between the clans.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by mattyrx » 25 March 22 3:00 pm

I think restricting dZ points allocation to the first find on any cache type makes sense too. I cant see a time that some moveables wont end up accumulating in a sack and travelling between events though. The days of our moveables having a unique story and interesting gallery pics are gone. The thirst for numbers and quantity over quality has seen to this. I wouldn’t think too many moveables would be abandoned if such a change is made, as they are easy things to use to alter dZ control over an area. Hiding a regular old cache in the relevant dZ is great for this too though.

I’d also hope that restricting dZ points to the first find on moveables might make the cache type a bit more interesting and make planning dZ zone take overs more strategic.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by Sol de Lune » 28 March 22 8:58 am

Been said many times before....cachers can find a moveable cache as many times as they want. No-one has an issue with that. However they should not be rewarded with dragonZone points for every find after the first find. This is why we see moveables past around from hand to hand. Lots and lots of points being applied to the cache and lots of lots of points for the cacher.

I believe it's time for the points awarded for finding a moveable being applied for the initial find....and not for any future finds.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by caughtatwork » 04 April 22 9:49 am

Thanks for the feedback.

It seems that the continuation of multiple finds for moveable geocaches is still desired, but points in the dZ game will be limited to the first time you find the geocache. That does mean I can gain points for publishing and then finding my own cacher once it has moved as effectively that becomes a new location and search in a place I haven't been before.

I need to look into the code and see what impact this will have on performance as each find on a moveable will need to be checked which adds a little time when logging.

I will note that past points are not impacted. Whatever you have at the time of the change going live will remain with you. We're not changing up the points retrospectively.

If you want to have some more conversation about this please do so as more conversation may change the outcome. I'll let you know when a final call is made.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by Just a cacher » 04 April 22 7:18 pm

I'm happy with that.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by Team737 » 04 April 22 9:04 pm

caughtatwork wrote:
04 April 22 9:49 am
It seems that the continuation of multiple finds for moveable geocaches is still desired, but points in the dZ game will be limited to the first time you find the geocache.
We haven't got into dragonZone much to be honest, but this does sound fair.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by Luckyl10n » 05 April 22 10:45 am

I'm happy to see the change made. I'm also not worried about retrospective adjustment as it's unlikely to affect too many players, maybe a handful?

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by caughtatwork » 05 April 22 12:16 pm

A handful, but extremely large impact to them individually, so ... no retrospectivity.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by whitewebbs » 05 April 22 12:46 pm

Points the first time you find a moveable seems fair. I still don't fully understand dZ points and only usually allocate to permanent hides, but saying that, I have allocated to moveables just to remove items from my dZ bag if I need more space.
I enjoy finding moveables more than once.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by 2y'stassies » 06 April 22 11:30 am

We enjoy finding moveable geocaches as we travel around. It is particularly satisfying to unearth and move on a moveable that has been sitting in one place for well over 12 months. Our choice has always been to log a find on a particular moveable only once. If we come across a moveable we have previously found we'll pick it up with a note and move it on.
We have taken part in mass finds of moveables at events but this is not our preferred way. We dislike the process whereby a cacher holding muliple moveables provides a list of those caches held and they can be logged from the list without the moveables being sighted or the logs signed.
We have also passed moveables on to cachers who for reasons of health, carers duties or work are unable to go far looking for moveables. We have also been recipients of bags of moveables dropped on our doorstep paricularly during games - not our preferred way of finding moveables.

dZ points for a first find but not for subsiquent finds sounds fair.

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Re: (dragonZone) Moveables being scored for each find by the same geocacher

Post by Tuena » 06 April 22 12:06 pm

I agree that DZ points should be awarded for the initial find only.

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