How many is too many?

[caughtatwork]

I just did a quick calculation of those locationless caches that have the text "jigidi" anywhere in the description. i.e. Likely a jigsaw puzzle to solve.

5953

That's more than 50% of the locationless caches.

We 'could' create a new locationless subtype or seriously pursue how we can categorise locationelss and that may help with the feeling that there are too many of a certain type.

We could also reclassify* these to a new locationless type, then manage the remainder back to those which require you to hide or find a locationless in line with the wiki description.

Continue to think about ways to address the problem if you think one exists and we'll continue to look at ways to improve the site in terms of perception.


*Reclassifying them alter everyones statistics whereby ant jigsaw they had found would be in a new category.

[oldfella]

I actually do not think there is a problem . I would like to leave it the way it is. Yes it annoys some people.

[2y'stassies]

Like previous comments we feel that the site should go back to the original definition of a Locationless cache with cachers required to go out and find something now lockdowns have ceased.

We would be happy with another category for caches that include a jigsaw. Our grand daughters, aged 6 and 7, enjoy doing the jigsaws for us as most are simple. Over the past 2 years their computing skills have improve greatly. Not sure how this relates to geocaching.

We have continued to do the locationless purely for our record keeping. This gets very cluttered if we have heaps of unfound locationless. This is just because we dont really want to make big changes to how we do things and is a personal choice.

We do understand that those who are isolated or mobility impaired find the current locationless appealing. We also understand the freedom the site gives its users and the time the administrators put into improving and keeping the site going. We look forward to further comments on this topic.

[Cybergran V]

Geocaching Australia Locationless caches have been my sanity saver, especially the jigsaws which I find very therapeutic. Yes I am one of those guilty of publishing a jigsaw every day and average about twenty people completing them daily, and posting grateful messages for them.
I have posted Virtual, History, and physical cachers that might get one hit a year.
Posting a Locationless that says “look I found something interesting go and take a photo of it” is pretty much a Virtual.
I would hate to see Locationless caches limited to a small number.
I created a hundred mystery or unknown Locationless caches which teach people who to solve codes and then go forth to find actual caches. These have had a great response and are still being used.
Several Locationless caches which teach people how to access parts of the Geocaching Website which I would never have known existed are excellent learning tools - such as how to go back and check to see if you have an unpublished cache whose number can be reutilised. Or even the current ones that highlighted the Orbs and their function.
Certainly create another section of jigsaws if you must, but don’t dispose of them, do the research and see how many cachers solve them every day. And there are those ranging from 20 pieces (which currently are giving uplifting messages every day which I appreciate) through to as many as 250 pieces. My current series is all about Australian birds (small enough for children to do but educational for the bird lovers amongst us) I know quite a few geocachers who began this pastime through bird watching.
So Covid lockdowns are over, but there are still many geocachers isolating because of it.
I too, same as Wazza, live in a GCA poor community, and am mobility restricted. Yes I spend half my day in my recliner doing GA jigsaws and puzzles, such as youngoldfella’s recent series on Australian inventions. I am being occupied, entertained and learning something at the same time.
As far as I am concerned it would be ideal to leave things as they are, with maybe a separate category for jigsaws, but for someone who would average eight hours a day on your site these activities have helped me cope with Covid lockdowns, 7 deaths in my family in the last twelve months, and decreased mobility.

[caughtatwork]

Posting a Locationless that says “look I found something interesting go and take a photo of it” is pretty much a Virtual.

Yes it is, and is therefore not a locationless cache. A locationless cache is one where you need to find "another one" of the same thing (as a simple example) and post the location where you found it. i.e. The specific items have locations but there is no one specific location for them all.

https://geocaching.com.au/cache/ga0094 NSW State Survey Marks is a locationless cache. You are asked to find an item and then add it to the cache by logging a find with its location.

https://geocaching.com.au/cache/ga0277 You'Ve Got Mail is another one. ie. I want you to find and photograph, unique, odd or downright strange letterbox. You are not finding the ONE letterbox you are adding to the collection.

Finding the statue at the City Square and taking a picture is a virtual.
Finding statues of (say) Capt Cook, taking a picture and logging that states co-ordinates is a locationless.

[caughtatwork]

Waymarking https://waymarking.com/ was the secondary sites official site for locationless caches.

I would prefer keep all of your geocaching together rather than separate into multiple sites depending on the style of cache you are trying to find, but locaionless caches have moved (IMO) too far from the description of what a locationless cache is and either need to be reigned in back to the original intent or classified in some manner that helps people sort through 11,000 of them.

[mattyrx]

This is the trend of locationless caches over time.

To me the worry is that if this trend continues, geocaching as it is currently defined will be secondary to this site. Instead its primary purpose will be around jigsaws, virtual events and armchair caching in general.

I also wonder how many people would log these types of locationless if it didn’t count as a find on this site? It’s fine to cache for the numbers, but I think changing the definition of a cache type just so people can increase their find count is the wrong way to evolve geocaching. If there’s a call to change the definition of a cache type, then it should be for reasons other than just to enable a faster way of boosting numbers. I wonder if jigsaw locationless were instead listed in a Facebook group/Forum Post, rather than a GCA Cache listing, would it get completed as often?

The current ‘Armchair’ caches are too far removed from the definition to be classified as a locationless geocache. I feel that they are better suited to be run from a different platform - purely to keep geocaching as a location based treasure hunt - the same as it’s been for years.

But I do understand that there are people here that do enjoy both hiding and finding them, and it may have been one of the
few good things that some folks have experienced during the Covid Pandemic. If it was me, I’d be happy listing my new jigsaw in the forum for other like-minded people to complete. Or in a shared online group somewhere etc. Sure, you wont get a smiley when you complete the jigsaw - but surely that wont subtract from the enjoyment of the challenge.

All in all though, I’m glad we all get to contribute to the conversations regarding the future direction of GCA. If it’s decided that Armchair Locationless are moved to a new cache type or are moved into different categories etc. I’ll put my hand up to help with this.

[geono.]

I have always enjoyed Locationless caches but during covid lockdown they were in a class of their own.. the puzzles, history, games, etc were a lot of fun and a great way of keeping contact with the geocaching community. My only problem with Locationless (and always has been) is getting a Find for them. I'd like to see Locationless keep going but with a logging system of a Note only... no other choices. (It wouldn't bother me if it was backdated to take in all Locationless caches from their inception) There would then not be an issue with how many or few were being published. Would it be better to redefine the Locationless cache? Any cache that can be done from home, as in locationless, virtual events, virtual ephemerals would be classed as Locationless (logged with Note). All caches with a location can be claimed as a Find. Has the old Locationless version of 'find something interesting and challenge others to find more of the same item' become redundant... ?

[caughtatwork]

Thanks for the response to the question.

I'm seeing a trend that the current suite of locationless caches are not what was originally intended and a return to finding a physical item in the wild and posting the found locations co-ordinates is preferred.

I also see that some folks have a preference for keeping the status quo.

We also have some folks who enjoy the armchair perspective of logging a locationless such as a jigsaw or other non-physical requirement.

This gives us 3 perspectives, not all of which align to each other.

I'm considering:
- Locationless return to the original intent which may include a "report this cache" button to a set of "administrators" who can archive a cache which is not a true locationless cache
- Implementing a limit to the number of active locationless caches you can have at any point in time (you would need to archive one to create another) and possibly the frequency in which you can publish new ones
- Creating a new subset for "armchair" locationless caches and placing additional restrictions on publishing and finding (such as only a "completion" being allowed as the completion of the "task" rather than a "find" or not being eligible for the finds rewards pathtags, or other limitations as they are no geocaches.

Have at some more discussion and then we'll see where we end up.

[oldfella]

Why is it that we have around ten people making comments on this topic and it looks like will have the ultimate voice in what happens to locationless.

There are many who participate in locationless as they currently are that do not read or make comments in the forums.

I would prefer to let the current way locationless is being played run its course and it will I feel go back to the original intent.
It is not broken so leave it alone. Some have used the current content for their own well being.

If it is deemed that a change is necessary, and I currently do and will disagree then here are my thoughts.


I have advertised in my current series that the series will conclude this month. there has been a lot of research entailed to publish this series. I already have my first true locationless in Future publication ready to go and it is in line with what a true locationless is.
My preference from your list is:-

- Locationless return to the original intent which may include a "report this cache" button to a set of "administrators" who can archive a cache which is not a true locationless cache

Thank you for posting options.

[Cybergran V]

My preference being a mobility reduced person is to leave the situation exactly as it is now.
As you all get older and find it difficult to get out and about as much as you used to, it is lovely to be able to armchair geocache.
This perspective has allowed so many of us to enjoy a huge variety of challenges, puzzles and jigsaws, at home, while the rest of you lucky mobile fit cachers are out there finding actual caches.
None of the options you published appealed to me.
The third came close, if you must do something, create an armchair caching section but don’t archive any. There are still some jigsaws I have on the back burner to do when the current plethora of them slows, which it has done.
Basically cachers are collectors. They might like to collect actual physical cachers and enjoy crossing that number off their list, or may be like me, crossing Locationless finds off my catalogue of caches published.
I’m guessing that there are a lot of daily users that never go on this forum and are not aware of this current discussion.
It is quite possible that you are getting a very small cross section of users who have responded to your initial query.
It is also possible that the responses represent most of the ones who rarely enjoy the daily variety of caches published.
I certainly wouldn’t go to the trouble of publishing a physical cache here for it to be possibly found once a year, if lucky, in preference to publishing an educational jigsaw daily, such as today’s which has already been found by fifteen people.
Multiply that number by the number of caches published here today, and you will get a more accurate figure of actual users of the site, before you upset the balance - as my dad used to say “if it isn’t broken don’t mess with it!”

[oldfella]

Well said and I agree.

If changes are going to be made then this is also my view:-

No archiving existing Publications, as there are those still attempting to catch up who visit locationless on almost a daily basis.

No removal of existing finds on locationless.

NO backdating.

and finally changes to commence on the first of the the next month that the decision is made to alter the existing format.

[caughtatwork]

Why is it that we have around ten people making comments on this topic and it looks like will have the ultimate voice in what happens to locationless.

This is a community site. If you participate your voice is heard. If you don't participate then we can't know what you want. If 5 people voice an opinion one way and none the other, then that carries the day. There is no way to get everyone to engage so we go with the engagement we get along with the developers who have stewardship of the way the site is run.

[caughtatwork]

I’m guessing that there are a lot of daily users that never go on this forum and are not aware of this current discussion.
It is quite possible that you are getting a very small cross section of users who have responded to your initial query.
It is also possible that the responses represent most of the ones who rarely enjoy the daily variety of caches published.

That's accurate. However if you are not going to participate in the site development, those who voice sway the day. The forum is here, has been since day1 (actually the forum predate day 1). We can try and engage in any number of ways and still get minimal participation. We will listen to what people who are willing to voice an opinion are willing to day. We won't always agree but the forum is there for a discussion.

[caughtatwork]

as my dad used to say “if it isn’t broken don’t mess with it!”

It is broken. Locationless do not follow the concept set up ibn the wiki. So something will be changing and if you rally more support to one position than another then that has a possibility to sway the day.