How many is too many?

Discussion about the Geocaching Australia web site
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caughtatwork
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Re: How many is too many?

Post by caughtatwork » 08 April 22 9:40 am

We're not looking at removing locationless caches.

We are looking at stemming the overwhelming tide of locationless caches that do not meet the wiki guidelines about what a locationless geocache is. https://wiki.geocaching.com.au/wiki/Locationless_cache

Games and activities mature and change over time, but to paraphrase another site owner, geocaching has geo in it which means "earth : ground : soil". Solving a jigsaw, or adding a screenshot or simply reading something to log it as a locationless cache takes it too far from the nature of the game, even if it evolved somewhat. The nature of the game of geocaching is about the earth, a location not about solving a jigsaw.

It is inevitable that there will be a number of different opinions. Some who have an interest in the game and keeping it pure. Some who would like to see evolution over time. Some who would like to make the game fit their own rules and needs. Some who, regardless of what happens, will complain about everything.

This is what our discussion is about. We can't let things stay the way they are. We need to evolve the locationless. This discussion can help shape it in a way that most people will be able to accept, even if they don't like or it's not 100% what they want.

Keep the discussion going and we can continue to evolve the outcome.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by caughtatwork » 08 April 22 10:36 am

If we were to create a new cache type for "jigsaw" style caches, does a solution constitute a find? i.e. You do or do not not get credit for finding the jigsaw and it would or would not count in your find statistics.

Being transparent, what I want to know is whether people are still looking to boost their find statistics by way of jigsaw puzzle solutions or whether they are truly doing them for fun and entertainment and therefore they do not have to be counted as a find?

Does this become a "wordle" style thing where you can do as many as you want in a day, but there is no geocaching find attached to solving it and it just becomes a personal goal to complete them?

We are also looking at setting a limit of locationless or jigsaw caches you can have live at any one time and how many you can create in a single day. i.e. How many is too many?

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by oldfella » 08 April 22 12:22 pm

"Being transparent, what I want to know is whether people are still looking to boost their find statistics by way of jigsaw puzzle solutions or whether they are truly doing them for fun and entertainment and therefore they do not have to be counted as a find?" From a Forum post by C@W.

I am not doing the Jigsaw puzzles to boost my find count. I am doing them because they are there. I have ceased publishing Jigsaw puzzles as I feel they are no longer necessary due to the fact the COVID restrictions are very relaxed now and, some than others, can now get out and about. Where I live and in QLD as a whole there are very few areas to actively pursue GCA placements. I have done my bit but that is me by hiding a lot of GCA caches with proper containers etc. I participated in the GCA GEOART series but those 31 have had no real interest from GCA members travelling through the Bargara area.

Jigsaw puzzles should be kept separate from the locationless category as it is now and if it should count as a find or not to a cachers find count I am on the fence with this one. It does not bother me either way. As someone who has published at least one Locationless every day from 1st March 2020 to today for COVID home bound GCA Members and have eased off over recent past and will cease publishing any non true locationless till this matter is resolved.

Jigsaws suit many due to mobility issues and or areas and number of GCA placements. Make those a separate identity from Locationless.

I think one locationless publication per day should be implemented and I have no problems with archiving any or all of my locationless publications from 1st March 2020 up to 31stDecember 2020. What will be will be and hopefully the real and true result will be interpreted by the "we" who are looking at locationless.




.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by Now_To_Morrow » 08 April 22 1:57 pm

When/If the armchair caches have a subcategory that doesn't count as a find in the geocachers outdoor find total:
- will the armchair caches from the past be changed to the new category;
- will the geocachers who logged the armchair caches have their find count altered dramatically?

I'm hoping their numbers aren't going to be affected because that will probably be a bit hard to take. But at the same time, I hope the past published armchair caches will be changed so if someone decides to do them in the future they can't be used to add to their find count. That's IF they change so they won't be loggable as finds obviously.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by oldfella » 08 April 22 2:45 pm

I am in favour of no backdating and the changes if any commence on the 1st of the month after the decision to change or not to change is made by the "we" As the senate was disbanded, and the ordinary GCA member was aware who was on the senate, I would like to know who the "we" are and why the ordinary GCA member did not have a say in this "we" category other then Craig Rat and C@W.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by caughtatwork » 08 April 22 4:11 pm

At the end of the day I, personally, make the call. As the principal (sole) developer all things decisive, good or bad, are made by me. The why is a separate discussion which we can have it we like.

I am not in favour of changing was has occurred.

If a decision is made to continue with locationless as physical locations to find, photo and log with co-ordinates, then everything not in that category would be archived and locked so no more logs could be made.

New locationless cache listings would need to conform to the wiki definition for a locationless caches and, if we decide, they can be "reported" and a team of administrators would then decide if it's valid or whether to archive it and lock it as not being appropriate.

If we decide a new cache type of "jigsaw" is appropriate, then we collectively would discuss whether it's only jigsaw or any armchair style log and whether get counted, going forward as finds or not.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by oldfella » 08 April 22 4:41 pm

Thankyou for the more definitive information.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by Team737 » 08 April 22 8:09 pm

My vote would be to move forward - future purely armchair logs would not count as finds. Such puzzles would be moved into a new category, with the ones already published.
Whether or not past finds are let to stand doesn't bother me, but as people did them in good faith at the time, I recognise that they would wish them to stand.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by Cybergran V » 09 April 22 9:43 am

Not all cachers log jigsaws and other Locationless to increase their cache find numbers.
Some, like me, keep a numerical catalogue of all caches published and get joy from ticking them off the list when completed.
It will be very disappointing if you lock all jigsaws previously published and we can no longer complete them for this purpose.
Do you propose that new jigsaws and Locationless that are published don’t have a GA number? And will they appear in our emails or how else will we know if they have been published?
If you do go ahead and lock them please give us a couple of months of entertainment over the winter months to enjoy completing them.
As you can see daily publications have decreased to about four so already the numbers have dropped dramatically.
I still feel that everything should be left as they were in the past and only make any changes from forward publications.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by Richary » 09 April 22 8:19 pm

I enjoy "finding" the jigsaws but at the same time I can see how they are a bit of a different thing to geocaching. One of the proper locationless I have found multiple times is the one relating to street libraries as and when I find new ones. At least that requires a photo and a set of coordinates.

But given the effect covid has had (even though that is easing) they fulfilled a purpose in allowing people to remain connected. The same could be said for the number of virtual events that were held, in the beginning they at least required you to turn up via zoom or whatever and attend that way, then later it just required you to log an attended on the day even if you didn't interact with anyone.

Still I can see a use for caches that don't require a physical journey, useful for people who may become temporarily or permanently mobility limited - it still allows them to remain part of the community.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by Goldenwattle » 11 April 22 6:46 pm

Earlier I was interested in the locationless, as I saw it as a challenge to find as many as I could, but then they became never ending, so there was no longer a goal in site. That's fine; those who like that can continue playing that game. I don't now though, as there are too many, so stopped bothering with locationless.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by Smittengranny » 12 April 22 7:56 am

Whilst we were subject to lockdowns the numerous types of Locationless that appeared had merit. They gave many people a real purpose in life whether it was through publishing or completing them. However we are no longer subject to those kind of restrictions and personally I find it rather annoying that my inbox continues to be congested by published caches that do NOT fulfill the definition as laid down.

I am not sure why people find it necessary to do jigsaws on the geocaching site when they can just log into Jigidi.com every day.
If such locationless as these do happen to continue though goodness knows why, points should not be awarded but a separate classification of completed could be added if our mighty leaders are clever.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by caughtatwork » 12 April 22 9:37 am

Goldenwattle wrote:
11 April 22 6:46 pm
Earlier I was interested in the locationless, as I saw it as a challenge to find as many as I could, but then they became never ending, so there was no longer a goal in site. That's fine; those who like that can continue playing that game. I don't now though, as there are too many, so stopped bothering with locationless.
A great example of why we are looking a resetting the locationless class of geocache back to that which was originally and currently state din the wiki. The locationless cache has moved too far away from the intent and we would like to move it back while at the same time recognising that there may be a desire for an alternative.

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by Sol de Lune » 15 April 22 9:21 am

Team737 wrote:
08 April 22 8:09 pm
My vote would be to move forward - future purely armchair logs would not count as finds. Such puzzles would be moved into a new category, with the ones already published.
Whether or not past finds are let to stand doesn't bother me, but as people did them in good faith at the time, I recognise that they would wish them to stand.
As a quick response, I'm with Team737. Hopefully an easy solution meaning locationless caches can move back to be more in line with the wiki....

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Re: How many is too many?

Post by Goldenwattle » 15 April 22 10:57 am

Jigsaw caches should be kept separate. At one stage I started deleting my jigsaw solves and some other caches, as I didn't want them part of my finds. Gave up, as that was too time consuming, but I would like to be able to remove from my statistics, all jigsaw puzzles (maybe they could have a separate count) and locationless in one hit.

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