What sort of Sponsor do we want/need

Discussion about the Geocaching Australia web site
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caughtatwork
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Post by caughtatwork » 09 October 08 9:03 pm

Just to bring the thread back on topic:

A choice of sponsors is not being offered here.
We will either accept or reject what has been offered.
If someone came up and offered us a car, we cannot suggest they give us a computer, fridge or GPS.
Sorry the sponsor would say, car or nothing.

The point of what we would NOT accept and reasoning WHY we wouldn't accept it is a very legitimate question.

Simply to say we wouldn't want fast food, alcohol, cigarettes coal, tar, oil, petrol, Jeep, Hummer, Ford, Holden, Myer, Garmin, Magellan, etc without helping everyone to understand WHY doesn't get much credence from me.

There are loads of you who I'm sure have opinions, so please air them either publicly or to your Senator and we can take them into consideration, but please give an explanation of WHY.

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Richary
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Post by Richary » 09 October 08 11:02 pm

Agree with C@Ws comments. As one of the Senators I have just posted it would be great if we had Ray's, Anaconda, BCF or a similar group coming up with the offer.

We haven't. And unless a Geocaching Australia group is formed quickly and goes seeking that sponsorship we won't. So we have to go with the potential sponsor we have or not.

That's the choice the Senators have to make. Is it worth a) proceeding with finding out exactly how they want to market it; then b) do we want to run with it.

If we do we have funding for the server and the things the developers want to do. If not we rely on donations which will vary from year to year and affect what we can and can't do. So the option of accepting a sponsor is also about geting some stability to GCA.

That needs to be balanced against what people feel is and isn't appropriate for the site (though I will say personally I don't feel it is inappropriate ). No it's not a condom manufacturer or a new attempt by Nasal Technology Spray to get us to go out and have "fun" at cache sites after their recent billboard advertising problems. There is nothing involved that isn't part of standard Australian advertising already.

Anyone who has strong opinions either way is welcome to email or phone me, bpth are listed in my GCA profile (though please keep the phone calls to between about 8am-10pm!). And I will air those to the rest of the Senate.

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Bewilderbeest
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Post by Bewilderbeest » 10 October 08 7:37 am

caughtatwork wrote:but please give an explanation of WHY.
Bewilderbeest wrote:I know some people are concerned about what type of sponsor we get. Personally, it doesnt really worry me. I'm grown up enough to ignore a sponsor whose ideals I disagree with.

My issue is with the type of sponsorship arrangement.
I gave my why yesterday - it's not about who it is, it's about the fact that the proposed arrangement would see control over the game shift. Instead of being a game just for geocachers, it would also be a game for those who are just doing it to chase the sponsors prizes.

Then you have people wanting to change the guidelines/rules to suit their interest and not necessarily for the best interest of geocaching as a game/sport/hobby/thing.

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mundoo
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Post by mundoo » 10 October 08 8:18 am

caughtatwork wrote:Just to bring the thread back on topic:

There are loads of you who I'm sure have opinions, so please air them either publicly or to your Senator and we can take them into consideration
As a relative newcomer to this forum I have no idea who is my Senator.

I couldn't find a list (and I expected to find a sticky in the 'Geocaching Australia Senate' section) so can someone tell me where a list of Senators is please so I can work out who MY Senator is?

Thanks.

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Post by caughtatwork » 10 October 08 9:31 am

Bewilderbeest wrote:
caughtatwork wrote:but please give an explanation of WHY.
Bewilderbeest wrote:I know some people are concerned about what type of sponsor we get. Personally, it doesnt really worry me. I'm grown up enough to ignore a sponsor whose ideals I disagree with.

My issue is with the type of sponsorship arrangement.
I gave my why yesterday - it's not about who it is, it's about the fact that the proposed arrangement would see control over the game shift. Instead of being a game just for geocachers, it would also be a game for those who are just doing it to chase the sponsors prizes.

Then you have people wanting to change the guidelines/rules to suit their interest and not necessarily for the best interest of geocaching as a game/sport/hobby/thing.
Not to disagree with anything you have said, but the sponsorship is about the website geocaching.com.au
We have an impact on the game, but it's not the game being sponsored, it's the website.

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Post by caughtatwork » 10 October 08 9:43 am

mundoo wrote:
caughtatwork wrote:Just to bring the thread back on topic:

There are loads of you who I'm sure have opinions, so please air them either publicly or to your Senator and we can take them into consideration
As a relative newcomer to this forum I have no idea who is my Senator.

I couldn't find a list (and I expected to find a sticky in the 'Geocaching Australia Senate' section) so can someone tell me where a list of Senators is please so I can work out who MY Senator is?

Thanks.
The list is at the bottom on the senate working party thread, however I will make new sticky with the Senators in it.

Yours is Jardy for SA, but feel free to contact any of them.

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Post by zactyl » 10 October 08 10:10 am

My partner worked in IT for an Australian company that had 60 retail stores nationwide. They would get 30-80 requests for sponsorship DAILY. I imagine the companies we might dream of offering us sponsorship would be in the same position, flooded with requests and having to be very selective. We have the advantage of being at least loosely related to the Dream Sponsor, but would still have to come up with a convincing argument for how they would make money/increase brand awareness/get a warm fuzzy feeling (we could play the charity card and tell them how we're getting kids off the couch and exercising).

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Post by Bewilderbeest » 10 October 08 1:09 pm

caughtatwork wrote:
Bewilderbeest wrote:
caughtatwork wrote:but please give an explanation of WHY.
Bewilderbeest wrote:I know some people are concerned about what type of sponsor we get. Personally, it doesnt really worry me. I'm grown up enough to ignore a sponsor whose ideals I disagree with.

My issue is with the type of sponsorship arrangement.
I gave my why yesterday - it's not about who it is, it's about the fact that the proposed arrangement would see control over the game shift. Instead of being a game just for geocachers, it would also be a game for those who are just doing it to chase the sponsors prizes.

Then you have people wanting to change the guidelines/rules to suit their interest and not necessarily for the best interest of geocaching as a game/sport/hobby/thing.
Not to disagree with anything you have said, but the sponsorship is about the website geocaching.com.au
We have an impact on the game, but it's not the game being sponsored, it's the website.
Yes, its the website they're offering to sponsor, but in a way that potentially impacts the game itself significantly.

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Shifter Brains
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Post by Shifter Brains » 10 October 08 11:01 pm

It sounds like the sponsor wants to place physical caches.

But a few questions:
1. who will do this?
2. will they be paid for it?
3. who will maintain them?
4. will they be listed on gca or on the sponsor site?
5. if people log these caches will the sponsor have copyright over the logs and be able to use them in ads and promotions?

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Post by Pesky! » 10 October 08 11:12 pm

Papa Bear_Left wrote:Bit of a moot point, unless it's followed by "and do they have an advertising budget that might include us" plus "and I'd be happy to put together a proposal and approach them about it"

The potential sponsorship under discussion dropped into our lap out of the blue, so they obviously knew about us already, meaning that we didn't have to come up with a presentation and all that rigamarole.

Worth thinking about, I guess, but I have one heartfelt request:

Pesky, if you write a proposal, can I spell-check it before you pitch it to anyone? :twisted:
Oh yes very funny! just abuse someone for their ability to type, that will distract form a foregone conclusion ,that the "powers that be" have now felt guilty about and are trying to cover their actions with a closed "open- discussion"

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Post by Team Piggy » 10 October 08 11:24 pm

caughtatwork wrote: Donations.

If we get few we get a small server and you don't get all the stats, other caches, forum, etc.

If we get many (not so far), we get a nice size machine and we get away with what we have now.

If we get heaps we get a nice machine for a year then we move off to a different one as we continually downsize and upsize.

The time to move machines and get stable is a couple of weeks, so if we get a "size" we would like the same "size" next year. I sure don't want to move machines each year.
Members.

Constant revenue for "extra" features.

Free users, still get basics, but get ads (which if clicked make extra revenue) win=win..

Sponsor.

Decides in 6 mths- Want ads or bigger identity, not working need to expand.. Site now has issue with ads when they said they wouldnt.
1 year. this isnt working. Pulls sponsorship.
Back where you started but worse as now there is no donations and no members...
Frantically try to find new sponsors, who ask for past sponsor details and bandwidth usage charts.. and why they pulled out..

(And yes, I sponsor at least 7 seperate identities thru my 2 companies and have a bit of an idea about it, and the returns/zilch it can bring in).

Sponsorship is bottom line about IDENTITY.
People do not offer sponsorship to have their name hidden away. Racing cars have them all over them, because they are seen and it creates brand awareness, thats what sponsorship is all about.

If you just get given money it a donation, totally different kettle of fish..

Sorry maybe I am being hypocritical, but we got asked for our thoughts. :wink:

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Post by caughtatwork » 10 October 08 11:25 pm

Shifter Brains wrote:It sounds like the sponsor wants to place physical caches.

But a few questions:
1. who will do this?
2. will they be paid for it?
3. who will maintain them?
4. will they be listed on gca or on the sponsor site?
5. if people log these caches will the sponsor have copyright over the logs and be able to use them in ads and promotions?
1. We're not sure, but if they get placed around the country I would anticipate that volunteers would be called for from the community.
2. I doubt it, but that is one of the questions we have for the sponsor actually.
3. The cache will be owned by the one who hides it and will have full accountability for maintaining it. If that's "you" as a volunteer to hide a cache, then the listing is yours. The cache would be provided to you, you get to hide it and own it.
4. GCA. The sponsor does not list caches and all indications are that they will never list caches. They would be "your" caches if number 1 is the way forward.
5. No. Logs and caches are entered into this website under the Creative Commons Share Alike No Commercial use agreement. Anyone has the right to use them, but they cannot use them in a commercial manner. This is as it stands right now and there would be no change to that information.

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Post by Team Piggy » 10 October 08 11:26 pm

Pesky! wrote:Oh yes very funny! just abuse someone for their ability to type, that will distract form a foregone conclusion ,that the "powers that be" have now felt guilty about and are trying to cover their actions with a closed "open- discussion"
Did you spell check that before you posted cause its pretty good :D

Is a closed "open-discussion" like a silent fart?

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Post by caughtatwork » 10 October 08 11:35 pm

Pesky! wrote:
Papa Bear_Left wrote:Bit of a moot point, unless it's followed by "and do they have an advertising budget that might include us" plus "and I'd be happy to put together a proposal and approach them about it"

The potential sponsorship under discussion dropped into our lap out of the blue, so they obviously knew about us already, meaning that we didn't have to come up with a presentation and all that rigamarole.

Worth thinking about, I guess, but I have one heartfelt request:

Pesky, if you write a proposal, can I spell-check it before you pitch it to anyone? :twisted:
Oh yes very funny! just abuse someone for their ability to type, that will distract form a foregone conclusion ,that the "powers that be" have now felt guilty about and are trying to cover their actions with a closed "open- discussion"
Putting aside any issues your have with PBL, the "powers that be" have not made any decision. There is discussion that you can see in the Senate as a Senator. The questions are being dealt with there as we can't say who the sponsor is.

You are confronting us with a "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" question. Any way we answer this you will turn it around.

I spoke to the marketer on 24-Sep-2008 while I was at this cache.
http://geocaching.com.au/cache/gc1agbd

I spoke to CraigRat while I was at this cache on the same day.
http://geocaching.com.au/cache/gc18jgb

I asked the other developers during that week whether this was something that was worth considering. We all agreed that the decision would be best addressed by The Senate and the community.

On 30-Sep-2008 I posted the thread.
http://forum.geocaching.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=11061

The only thing we haven't told the community is the name of the marketer, sponsor and product as we've been asked to keep this confidential and I respect that desire.

I object to being accused of making a decision in private and then convincing people in public.

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Post by Papa Bear_Left » 11 October 08 1:15 am

Pesky! wrote:
Papa Bear_Left wrote:Pesky, if you write a proposal, can I spell-check it before you pitch it to anyone? :twisted:
Oh yes very funny! just abuse someone for their ability to type, that will distract form a foregone conclusion ,that the "powers that be" have now felt guilty about and are trying to cover their actions with a closed "open- discussion"
I'm sorry, that was meant to be a joke, not an attack on you or an attempt at misdirection. My apologies, and I'll (try to) be more polite in future.

I don't think there's any secret that the guys who run this website would love to have the worry about its financial future solved, at least for a time, by a sponsorship deal. You also know that I'm not one of those guys, and I'm in the awkward position of having to resisit any impulses to offer any help to the site due to my already stretched caching volunteer time.

I'm pretty confident that, if the temporary senate says no to the deal, then it'll be turned down. Of course, that'll throw the ball back to the membership to come up with other solutions to the problem of how to keep the site up and running!

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