Tags and a controlled taxonomy

rediguana · Post by **rediguana** » 23 May 08 10:19 am

What started as a discussion on multis and unknown caches in NZ has resulted in the creation of an experimental controlled namespace for tagging.

Why a controlled namespace? Well we don't want three different names for biking activities (ok the are a little different) and would like some consistent terms so that only one term is used to identify a particular trait. Basically we would like a separate namespace for some clearly defined tags that we have been discussing.

After experimenting with the gc.com.au tags, I made some suggestions in a recent post to our thread, and would like to suggest them here.

rediguana wrote:I'd be hoping that we could get some usability tweaks made to gc.com.au to make these easier to use. Some things I'll suggest to them.

-- Tag results should show the green tick next to those that have been found.
-- List of caches should be able to be filtered by state or home co-ordinates.
-- List of caches should allow an 'unfound only' option.
-- Once we have created an agreed namespace, I'd like to see our tags separated out into their own list so that they are not included with the folksonomy currently being used. E.g. all the controlled namespace nz- tags are listed separately. Of course, if our Australian friends like where we're headed with this, then they are welcome to use it as well.

I was stoked to see that you actually had snuck the tags feature in already - I think we've got some people keen to experiment with it.

You will probably need to read the whole thread to see where we are coming from, much of it has to do with the variance within multis and unknown caches, and making it a little easier to find caches that you want to do when there are a lot of multis and unknowns around.

Cheers Gav

Map Monkey · Post by **Map Monkey** » 23 May 08 11:24 am

I don't believe we need to seperate NZ tags from Aussie ones.....IMO "tags are tags" that shouldnt be location specific per se. Filtering by location is another option altogether.

Why not tag your caches as "NZ, Multi, short," which will pick up those caches? Having seperate "nz-" would not work for all cases eg. someone wants to just search for all the short multis (for a virtual game etc), etc .... better to keep tags seperate IMO.

Some good ideas though that need exploring.

mm

rediguana · Post by **rediguana** » 23 May 08 12:22 pm

Map Monkey wrote:I don't believe we need to seperate NZ tags from Aussie ones.....IMO "tags are tags" that shouldnt be location specific per se. Filtering by location is another option altogether.

As suggested, we'd like to see the country/state filtering made available for tags to avoid this issue

Likewise, if cache type filtering was added, we could probably drop the multi/unknown terms as well.

We're just using nz for the time being to create a unique tag name that won't be subsumed with other peoples tagging with say 'short'. Also we are working on definitions of each, so if there is an existing 'short' tag being used, that doesn't have a decent definition, we won't be using it and will stick to more unique tag names.

Map Monkey wrote:Why not tag your caches as "NZ, Multi, short," which will pick up those caches? Having seperate "nz-" would not work for all cases eg. someone wants to just search for all the short multis (for a virtual game etc), etc .... better to keep tags seperate IMO.

Show me how to search on multiple tags at the same time and I'd consider it. But at this time, it does not appear possible to search for NZ, multi and short and have only caches with all three tags show in the search results (assuming there was one with all three defined). Also, it would need to have the option to show ANY or ALL e.g. ALL would show only those caches with all three tags.

E.g. a search for 'easy walking, scenic' should result in at least this cache being listed in the results. It isn't.

So the search capability doesn't yet exist, hence a single unique tag is more suitable for the time being.

Of course, if Australians agree to our definitions of short and long multis, we're happy to use more general terms

Till then, we'll stick with unique terms that are unlikely to conflict with existing terms.

And we are more than happy to tag it with 'multi, short, nz-multi-short' in the meantime to keep both camps happy.

Cheers Gav

Post by **CraigRat** » 23 May 08 7:51 pm

The tag system is meant to be pretty free-form and abstract.
When we proposed the system, users were quite specific in us not having pre-defined tags (or attributes).

I was hoping to make the tag searches more comprehensive/filterable, but I haven't reviewed the operation of it for yonks.

It was my 1st or 2nd coding job for the site so it could definitely use a re-visit.

A fuzzy search and region filtering would be a good thing I suppose!

Your suggestions have been noted, I'll get round to doing the coding when I manage to get some spare time (but, please don't hold your breath, things are crazy for me right now!)

Post by **caughtatwork** » 23 May 08 8:06 pm

CraigRat wrote:It was my 1st or 2nd coding job for the site so it could definitely use a re-visit.

That could explain the tag="value" AND tag="value2". That's never going to work

I'll have a go at fixing this little bug later tonight.

rediguana · Post by **rediguana** » 23 May 08 8:20 pm

CraigRat wrote:The tag system is meant to be pretty free-form and abstract. When we proposed the system, users were quite specific in us not having pre-defined tags (or attributes).

For sure. I fully understand that. Our use of rather unique terms is one means of bringing structure to the current system for our purposes - which I don't believe are met in a folksonomy. Biggest problem with free-form systems is that different terms can have similar definitions (synonyms), or individuals have different definitions for the same term.

CraigRat wrote:(but, please don't hold your breath, things are crazy for me right now!)

I'm not, that's why I've worked up a reasonable means to use what is currently in place to acheive what we want

Post by **CraigRat** » 23 May 08 8:29 pm

caughtatwork wrote:
CraigRat wrote:It was my 1st or 2nd coding job for the site so it could definitely use a re-visit.
That could explain the tag="value" AND tag="value2". That's never going to work

I'll have a go at fixing this little bug later tonight.

Oopsies

(Well it WOULD work if work if you searched for the same tag multiple times..

)

GammaPiSigma · Post by **GammaPiSigma** » 23 May 08 10:00 pm

CraigRat wrote:The tag system is meant to be pretty free-form and abstract.
When we proposed the system, users were quite specific in us not having pre-defined tags (or attributes).

For some time now I have been making the effort to add tags to all the caches I do and I find that the free form nature of the tag system, whilst good, does have a major problem. For example, as it stands there is more than one term for bushwalking. As a result I find myself adding both "bushwalking" and "bush walking" tags to some caches. Also there are some incorrectly spelt words. 
I can understand that this is a low priority issue and in all honesty to most people it would not even rank as an issue. But is it possible for multiple tags (as illustrated above) and misspelt words to be removed from the public tag list?
 
Cheers, 
Mike.

Damo. · Post by **Damo.** » 23 May 08 10:13 pm

GammaPiSigma wrote:is it possible for multiple tags (as illustrated above) and misspelt words to be removed from the public tag list?
 
Cheers, 
Mike.

Could probably use a culling every now and then. I think the most common used phrases could even use an icon or something, but I was one of the ones voting for pre-defined tags!

Post by **caughtatwork** » 24 May 08 12:47 am

rediguana wrote:Show me how to search on multiple tags at the same time and I'd consider it. But at this time, it does not appear possible to search for NZ, multi and short and have only caches with all three tags show in the search results (assuming there was one with all three defined). Also, it would need to have the option to show ANY or ALL e.g. ALL would show only those caches with all three tags.

E.g. a search for 'easy walking, scenic' should result in at least this cache being listed in the results. It isn't.

So the search capability doesn't yet exist, hence a single unique tag is more suitable for the time being.

The ability to search multiple tags has now been addressed. The majority of the functionality was there, it was just a little bit screwed. It should work quite well now and you'll notice that the caches returned are formatted in the usual style, so you can see where they are, etc.

I'll look at having a country / state selection list added to the search which you can then use to restrict to a certain location. e.g. NZ, SI, etc.

Map Monkey · Post by **Map Monkey** » 24 May 08 9:07 am

Nice work C@W (and possibly Craigrat

)

Is it a hard thing to enable the text box to function correctly by pushing the "enter" button rather than needing to selecting the search button only?....i keep forgetting and end up clearing the text field.

Maybe a quick example above/below the box to explain the correct format for multiple search words.

ty
mm

Post by **caughtatwork** » 24 May 08 11:38 am

Map Monkey wrote:Nice work C@W (and possibly Craigrat )

Is it a hard thing to enable the text box to function correctly by pushing the "enter" button rather than needing to selecting the search button only?....i keep forgetting and end up clearing the text field.

Maybe a quick example above/below the box to explain the correct format for multiple search words.

ty
mm

Hitting enter instead of the button is a known IE bug for forms that have only one data field. I've deployed a code work around for this bug.
I've also included a one liner to tell you to separate multiple tags with commas.

rediguana · Post by **rediguana** » 24 May 08 11:56 am

caughtatwork wrote:The ability to search multiple tags has now been addressed. The majority of the functionality was there, it was just a little bit screwed. It should work quite well now and you'll notice that the caches returned are formatted in the usual style, so you can see where they are, etc.

Wow - that is much better - thanks

Nice work!

Would it make more sense to display search results within each tag group - e.g. 2 tags, 1 tag - sorted by distance from home co-ordinates?

Something else I just tried was searching by partial tags and this didn't seem to work. E.g. I tried nz- and it returned no results. This may be useful at some stage, so that someone could search for bik or bike to find multiple terms that contain the search term. E.g. view might return view, scenic view, nice view etc. This is probably quite important for a folksonomy where people are using similar terms.

Also, any chance of having a search box added up the top on the default tags page? Perhaps to the top right in the tags section above the Public Tags? Makes it easier to have a quick search without having to open another page.

Cheers Gav

Map Monkey · Post by **Map Monkey** » 24 May 08 12:16 pm

We might have to get these Kiwis to throw in a couple bucks for some more processing power soon.

mm

Post by **CraigRat** » 24 May 08 12:40 pm

....or list a few movable caches here...

They are the funnest of all cache types!

Thanks AGAIN to c@w for picking up my slack... the guy deserves a medal!