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GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned 

Should GCA STOP listing new caches in banned zones?
Yes 64%  64%  [ 157 ]
No 36%  36%  [ 89 ]
Total votes : 246

GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned 
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
ruzzelz wrote:
Sorry to disappoint but in particular the NP laws in each state allow the parks authorities to lock-up areas and if necessary exclude access. =; Hence for special restricted areas and scientific areas the geocaching communitity needs to realise we are subject to the same restrictions as every other person in Australia. [-X

If it is a no go zone or one requiring a special access permit, placing a virtual cache in that type of location is NOT responsible geocaching. :-k

Well I'm not sure that this is the point being driven at. Sure they can ban ANY access to an area, but what I think the issue at point is you can't say that access to an area is allowed UNLESS you are geocaching. They can say that leaving anything behind is littering and hence against the law and that takes care of hiding as cache, but I agree with geoskid, how can they ban virtual caches. It like saying you can come and see this fantastic rock out in the bush so long as you didn't find out about it via a geocaching website.


02 April 10 6:34 am
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
I'm glad I read this thread. Helped to clarify my own views. I posted a thread a short while back on caches on private property. As I work in areas where it's necessary to provide references for information in reports, I naively made the error of quoting a cache that I'd recently found on private property as a part of my OP. This caused the owner to promptly archive a perfectly good cache that can still be visited by exercising some tact.
I think GCA should list them all regardless. If the first to find encounters man eating dobermans and armed security guards, they can, on their release from hospital (or gaol?), post an appropriate log.
Seriously though, I'm not encouraging irresponsible placing of caches but if you give in to the censorship angle, where will it end. It'd only take a bureaucratic brain storm and all caching could be banned in world heritage areas (perhaps it is?), public parks, even crown land. If it's up to the individual cache placers, and cache finders, common sense will prevail. Log; "Couldn't access cache due to razor wire and armed guards", or perhaps " Didn't access cache as it appeared to be on private property. Please could cache owner clarify"
Seems to me that the feedback system provided by logs is a sensible and practical way of doing things.


01 August 11 8:00 pm
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
nutwood wrote:
This caused the owner to promptly archive a perfectly good cache that can still be visited by exercising some tact.

I archived my cache because there is a sign saying do not enter and a LOCKED gate. Pretty straight forward really.

The sign and gate wasn't there when I hid it, there is a temporary sign and gate there now, and it no doubt will be removed at the end of the tunnel works (given it's a publicly accessible lookout)... I'll unarchive it then, which is the responsible thing to do. (In reality I'll be re-listing it on GCA as I don't list new caches on GC)

This is what you do when you hide responsibly. you don't knowingly leave a cache active in an area that potentially gets members prosecuted.

The only proviso at GCA that is non-negotiable is 'is this cache in a legal location'.
As one of those responsible for running this site, it would be remiss of me to ignore our only real rule.

If my cache was someone elses and I was notified of it thru a 'Need Archiving' log I would have archived it.

EDIT: I forgot this was a GC Cache, the rules stand even more-so, as agreed when listing the cache.


01 August 11 8:24 pm
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
CraigRat wrote:
]
I archived my cache because there is a sign saying do not enter and a LOCKED gate. Pretty straight forward really.

The sign and gate wasn't there when I hid it, there is a temporary sign and gate there now, and it no doubt will be removed at the end of the tunnel works (given it's a publicly accessible lookout)... I'll unarchive it then, which is the responsible thing to do. (In reality I'll be re-listing it on GCA as I don't list new caches on GC)

This is what you do when you hide responsibly. you don't knowingly leave a cache active in an area that potentially gets members prosecuted.

The only proviso at GCA that is non-negotiable is 'is this cache in a legal location'.
As one of those responsible for running this site, it would be remiss of me to ignore our only real rule.

If my cache was someone elses and I was notified of it thru a 'Need Archiving' log I would have archived it.

EDIT: I forgot this was a GC Cache, the rules stand even more-so, as agreed when listing the cache.


Groan, Sorry CR, I had no intention of re-visiting that cache. I was trying, (obviously unsuccessfully) to make the point that many caches are in technically illegal locations. With regard to your cache. It's on private property, it's been on private property since the day you put it in. That area has been hydro land for at least fifty years. The gate has been there for ever, just not shut. Technically the lookout is prior to the gate.
In mentioning that cache I had absolutely no intention of causing offence. I was simply pointing out that there are many caches that are really on private property but are happily visited on a regular basis. The question "is it legal?", how do you decide that one? Trespass isn't illegal providing you leave when asked. What is meant by an illegal cache?
With regard to your cache, I can't see anyone getting prosecuted for wandering up to log it. As you say, it's been used as a public lookout for years. If you take the moral position of archiving it because you have to obey the rules then you should really leave it archived as the ownership of the land isn't going to change simply because the gate isn't locked.
In general I don't agree with that position. Someone comes to look for it, they come to the gate, they log a DNF or a note because the gates shut. Someone else comes, the gate's open, they find it. As someone responsible for GCA I can see that your position as cache owner is far more involved, glass houses comes to mind, however in general terms I don't feel that arbitrary banning/deleting/archiving of caches is a good thing. I don't think this is a GCA question either. I suspect if GC applied the rules vigorously a large number of caches would disappear. Decisions are already being made as to what to worry about and what to ignore. Private land that is publicly accessible seems to come under the ignore classification, providing the private owner is a large body such as the Hydro, but not if it's Farmer Brown.


01 August 11 11:07 pm
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
What we consider illegal is anything where geocaching is specifically banned. (Like how it was in NSW NPs)
That and private property (without the owners permission) are reasonably straight forward.

As to hiding on crown land or public places...well, that's a bit more of a murky grey :lol:


02 August 11 8:10 am
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
In many areas now, there is very little true crown land. A lot of land is now owned by semi-government organisations that are set up as private corporations where the government is the shareholder. Eg in Qld, state road corridors are owned by Queensland Transport, forestries are owned or leased by Forestries Queensland, rail corridors (including old decommissioned lines where the track is removed and turned into rail trails) are owned by Queensland Rail, etc. These are popular cache locations, but technically all these places are publically accessible private property. It becomes a very grey area.


02 August 11 8:51 am
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
grahamf72 wrote:
These are popular cache locations, but technically all these places are publically accessible private property. It becomes a very grey area.


No grey area at all for GC hides! From the Groundspeak Fundamental Placement Guidelines.

Quote:
2. Obtain the landowner's and/or land manager's permission before you hide any geocache, whether placed on private or public property. By submitting a geocache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. If you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate this on the cache page for the benefit of the reviewer and those seeking the cache.


02 August 11 2:44 pm
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
Then we are all doomed as is nearly every cache in the country.
You know full well we don't have permission, will not seek permission nor be granted permission.
There is no authority that can provide permission even if you asked.


02 August 11 2:46 pm
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
That is what the adequate is for... :wink:


02 August 11 4:04 pm
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
Big Matt and Shell wrote:
That is what the adequate is for... :wink:


So "adequate permission" equals "publicly accessible" in most cases.

Except where the land is obviously identified as privately owned or the controlling authority has restricted caching as an activity.


02 August 11 8:59 pm
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
Rule number two goes on to specify
Quote:
Even if you are certain that geocaching is permitted on a particular public property, ensure that the management agency is aware of your intended placement and secure their permission before placing the cache.


If that rule were applied there would be very few caches around. :roll:


02 August 11 9:46 pm
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
This whole grey area of what's legitimate and what is not is why I strongly support GCA keeping out of the debate and remaining a listing site, not a policing site.
Who knows what could happen in the future. Imagine if caching became associated with an headline worthy accident. A cacher gets hit by a car whilst retrieving a cache near a highway. Perhaps the cacher is a child or a pregnant nun, something that gets the media excited. Then two weeks later perhaps there's a near miss near a road. Again a cacher and the media has a field day.
All of a sudden the politicians decide that something needs to happen. They pass a law banning caching within 20m of a public roadway. Trouble is, that being politicians and not very clever, they don't limit the ban to Freeways where it might make some sense. All of a sudden huge numbers of caches are technically banned. Of course applying the ban to all roads is ridiculous and cachers would generally ignore such a ban, however where would it leave a listing sites with a policy of policing the locations?
I know it's a hypothetical but I feel that these are the sorts of things to consider if GCA ever decides to go down the path of getting involved in cache locations. The other factor is that once GCA had a policy of vetting cache locations, they could be considered to have some responsibility. Someone falls down a mine shaft on the way to get a cache; why wasn't there a warning in the description? ](*,)


09 August 11 5:18 pm
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
Can I sue "geocaching" for all the cuts, leech and tick bites and Sunburn? all occured whilst huntig for what was listed as a safe cache!

What if the green party gets into power, and they pass a law against putting anything within 2 meters of a living tree, anywhere , even in the street?


10 August 11 4:28 pm
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
What do you mean if the Green Party gets in. Bob already pulls the strings. #-o

What were we told about carbon ? :^o :^o :^o :^o :^o Funny, I always though we needed more carbon and that the combination with Oxygen was considered by some to pose risks. :-k Something about global warming (no that is right they had to change the name on that to climate change - just in case) :roll:


10 August 11 5:52 pm
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Post Re: GCA listings of caches in areas where geocaching is banned
Are we in danger of slipping off topic?!


10 August 11 11:06 pm
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