Ethics of geocaching

swampgecko · Post by **swampgecko** » 05 January 04 7:54 am

Would like the feedback of the Australian geocaching community on a few matters.

How do you all feel about the following issues. 

1. Logging your own event cache?

2. Logging your own cache find?

3. Moving another player's cache to "more suitable location"?

I know that there are more burning issues as well so why don't we get the ball rolling on this and add more as we go along.....

Now for my views (as a player only)1. I refuse to log my own event cache as I am the host2. I refuse to do that as well, and there is no need to find it to drop off a tb, you can do that with a note in your own cache. 3. I don't do that as well. I return the cache back to it's postion and then would either email an approver or the prefered method, get in contact with the owner. the Only Time I have moved a cache was to remove a cache that had been trashed or burnt out during fires, and still contacted the owners in one way or another to inform them of the fate of their cache.

swampgecko · Post by **swampgecko** » 05 January 04 8:39 am

This is not to turn into a slanging match over what geocachers have done to who, but just a opinion gathering exercise. 

I will be monitoring this thread closely and any posts that do turn nasty will be either deleted or modified to a more acceptable form. No arguement will entred into this matter.

If you wish to start or hold an agruement, the private messages or personal emails are the place for it.

Thanks

Swampgecko (wearing all three hats now)
Geocacher
Forum Moderator
gc.com Aussie Approver

maccamob · Post by **maccamob** » 05 January 04 8:40 am

Agree with you on all three, Swampy, for the reasons you have listed. The 'exception' to #1, if you can call it that, is when events are 'hosted' by more than one team. Only one of the host teams can post the event cache web page, so I think it's then fair enough for the other host team(s) to log it.

leek · Post by **leek** » 05 January 04 8:43 am

I have no problems with logging your own movable cache - as long as it's been moved since you hid it... However since there are only a few of these around now, I guess this is bit of a moot point...

Something I would add to the list is: Not giving the secret of a cache or waypoint away to muggles... If a cache site is too busy to retrieve and replace a cache without being conspicuous, then come back another time...

I am in favour of a code of ethics, but only as a set of guidelines which most people adopt voluntarily... I believe any cacher should be able to bend some of the rules without being frowned upon. I also don't believe that it should be something that is shared with gc.com as the US guys may have very different ideas and it may cause more trouble than it cures... Make the code of ethics / conduct available on this forum as a general guide to caching in Australia - it would be especially useful for newbies...

just my 2.2c (GST inclusive)

leek · Post by **leek** » 05 January 04 8:49 am

Just as a matter of interest, there is an interesting thread on this sort of stuff at http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index. ... opic=59091 As usual with the US forums, they tend to go off on several tangents and be very fond of their own voice, but there's some good points buried in there along the way...

Biggles Bear · Post by **Biggles Bear** » 05 January 04 9:15 am

maccamob wrote:The 'exception' to #1, if you can call it that, is when events are 'hosted' by more than one team. Only one of the host teams can post the event cache web page, so I think it's then fair enough for the other host team(s) to log it.

We agree with this as we too have been involved with the co-organization of an event, and it's the only way that one of the teams can get credit for the work they have put in.

Mind Socket · Post by **Mind Socket** » 05 January 04 10:15 am

This has been raised a few times before. A Code of Ethics sounds a little overbearing to me, but I'd be pleased to see an agreed list of preferred practices or beginner guidelines posted on gc.com.au (yeah, I'm arguing semantics, so shoot me

). Common sense and constructive criticism have got us this far, and the less red tape the better, IMHO.

As for the other questions posed, I think logging your own cache in most situations is a no-no (even moveables), but that's just me. In the end, it's still just geocaching and someone else's find count is irrelevant ... right?

- Rog

SNIFTER · Post by **SNIFTER** » 05 January 04 10:58 am

Good to see this topic raised.
It should be called "The Gentlemans agreement of Geocaching". Sorry ladies but what else would you say.
I have no problem logging an event that I have organised providing I did turn up for said event.
I would not log my own cache.
I would not shift someone elses cache unless I had been in contact with the owner via email or phone.Some cachers do not own 3 digit GPS's so 2 digits have to do. Thats what we started with.
It has been said that there aren't many moveable caches out there and we are the owners of one such cache. If I could find it I would not log it I would throw it away.
On the old forum there was a thread about responsible caching and what is deemed appropriate for placing a cache. It included the container, The log book, the items etc.Someone may be able to retrieve it so that newbies can have a read of it.I know I spent a lot of time on that one.

Hounddog · Post by **Hounddog** » 05 January 04 11:53 am

As with most things in life, geocaching ethics are not purely black and white.

I 'would' log my own event cache because, while I might be the host, the cache is for everyone who takes the time and trouble to turn up to the event and there is no unfair advantage for the cache host.

A cache that I started and I am thinking of logging is "That's the Trig" This is a multi find/multi location cache and holds no unfair advantage for the cache 'placer'.

Logging your own physical cache is of course off limits as this would hold an unfair advantage for the placer.

Moving caches. I am not going to comment other than to say, DON'T! unless you contact the owner first. If the cache has been utterly destroyed then you can remove any resulting litter, but this also should be done with the owner in the loop if possible.

Like I said, many grey areas.

When I first started in the sport it was almost customary to comment on the accuracy of a cache placement. Because of this, I have never taken offence to anyone's comments on the accuracy or inaccuracy of my co-ordinates but it seems that these days, people do. To avoid this affray, I suggest a simple guidline. If you feel the cache is more than 10 metres off target then 'suggest' in your log that it 'may' be off. If it's less than 10 metres off then 'chill out' and forget about even mentioning it.

Have fun caching guys.

Hounddog

Papa Bear_Left · Post by **Papa Bear_Left** » 05 January 04 12:33 pm

swampgecko wrote: 1. Logging your own event cache?

I recently went back and modified our event logs from finds to notes, as I didn't feel that they should be counted in our total. Turning up a restaurant isn't quite what I consider a geocache to be...

swampgecko wrote: 2. Logging your own cache find?

Nope. I know that some virtuals and things don't make it any easier for the placer than for anyone else, but it's just too open to abuse. ("Hey, that'd make a neat locationless! Let's place it and log it!")
(Mind you, we don't place or log virtuals or locationlesses either, so the point's moot.)

swampgecko wrote: 3. Moving another player's cache to "more suitable location"?

I think some minor moves are in order, especially if there's good reason to suspect that you're actually correcting someone else's mis-replacement. (There's a cache team here who've left a few caches uncovered lately, and I, as next finder, put them back where the description indicated rather than were I found them.)

But moving to a significantly different spot? Not without permission from the owner.

An informal guide for (especially new) cachers to look at in addition to the 'official' gc.com guidelines seems like a Good Thing.

GEK · Post by **GEK** » 05 January 04 1:56 pm

1. Event caches - maybe. Depends on how much "ownership" you have of the event and whether there are any actual cache hunts involved.

2. Own caches - no, unless it is a movable or special type of virtual cache (e.g. That's the Trig)

3. Moving a cache - YES definitely if the situation warrants it. For instance we recently had a cache in our local area that was accidentally placed next to a bullant nest. For the safety of future cachers it HAD to be moved immediately. Same goes for caches which have been dislodged or damaged. However I think if you move or repair a cache you are taking partial or temporary ownership of it and it's important that you contact the owner ASAP to inform them. You may even have to consider it your responsibilty to return the cache to it's original state if the owner is unhappy with what you have done.

GEK

Hounddog · Post by **Hounddog** » 05 January 04 3:34 pm

GEK wrote: accidentally placed next to a bullant nest. For the safety of future cachers it HAD to be moved immediately.
GEK

Insects can be a problem. It reminds me of a cache called "Morpeth Meander" some time back. The cache was located in a seemingly innocent tuft of scrub under a tree, but when you tried to get under the tree and retreive it, you got stung by paper bark wasps. Not once but several times. Nasty. The owner was contacted, but they didn't seem to like stinging him when he checked, so it stayed where it was and the wasps kept stinging. "Genuine" Safety reasons (very rare) should always take preference over any movement rules but, in most cases, even this can be done in consultation with the owner first.

As far as I can remember, not once have I ever had to remove someone elses cache or change it's location. I have however suggested moves to owners many times for things like...... Private Property, fire damage, health risk, altered landscape and flood risk.

Hounddog

ToolkiT · Post by **ToolkiT** » 05 January 04 5:15 pm

Mind Socket wrote:This has been raised a few times before. A Code of Ethics sounds a little overbearing to me, but I'd be pleased to see an agreed list of preferred practices or beginner guidelines posted on gc.com.au (yeah, I'm arguing semantics, so shoot me ). Common sense and constructive criticism have got us this far, and the less red tape the better, IMHO.

As for the other questions posed, I think logging your own cache in most situations is a no-no (even moveables), but that's just me. In the end, it's still just geocaching and someone else's find count is irrelevant ... right?

- Rog

I agree with Roger, guidelines: yes, Rules/Codes: no..

Just use your common sense..
As for the three issue from the topic starter:
1: If you put a lot of effort in it, ok, otherwise it is kind of sad... but then again I dont care about my count that much, GC for me is the hunt inself, it is not a competition, just a nice way to spend some time..
2:that is a big NoNo for me.. if you do that you take this whole thing way to serious IMHO..
3: Not done unless there are good reasons like mentioned above..

EcoTeam · Post by **EcoTeam** » 05 January 04 7:48 pm

swampgecko wrote:Would like the feedback of the Australian geocaching community on a few matters.

How do you all feel about the following issues. 

1. Logging your own event cache?

2. Logging your own cache find?

3. Moving another player's cache to "more suitable location"?

1. I have only organised and run one event so far, and I did log it. Didn't really give it much thought at the time, but it just "seemed right" as everyone else logged it. Thinking now, I think it's the least that should be allowed for those who go to the trouble of organising an event, which are fairly rare anyway.

2. Never done it. Always thought it was "the wrong thing to do". But why do gc.com allow it??, is it an oversight?, should it be fixed to prevent this?

But thinking now open mindedly and thowing some ideas around for some controversy

-
If it's sort-of allowed for event caches, why not for your own caches as a reward for placing a cache?
After all, you did actually go to the co-ords right?
Will it encourage more cache placement?
Do we need more cache placement?
What is the average found/placed ratio of Australian cachers? 5-1?, 10-1?, will allowing a small log reward for placing a cache make any difference to "the game"?
Cachers have "placed" stats too, is this enough?
Will it encourage people to place easy caches in crap convienient locations like in the US?
What of those who want to only place caches and not find any (or many), should they be allowed to gain a count as "players"?

My opinion is gc.com should just ensure that you can't find your own cache. Found and Placed stats would then be 100% accurate and meaningful. Would be a simple modification, surely?

3. Under certain circumstances as others have mentioned. Like if it's about to get flooded, it's been trashed etc. If I do that then I take photos and contact the owner and log a note ASAP - you have to be prepared to take ownership of it until then.

EcoDave

Geocaching Australia

Ethics of geocaching

Do you believe we need a geocacher's code of ethics (pertaining to our local "Australian" situation)?

Ethics of geocaching

NOT an approver or geocacher bash

Re: Ethics of geocaching

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