Thumbs down to thumbs down

[chillibutts]

Hey all,

I notice that there is a lot of "thumb down" going on in challenges. I did an audit, and right across the country, thumbs down EASY outweigh thumbs up. Happy lot aren't we??

My kids (8 and 5) are very excited about these new challenges... and I am pretty sure they are entitled to enjoy them.

In fact, they have some good ideas of their own, and subject to some refinement I think we will publish a few. They will LOVE it and will be very excited to see the feedback and have someone complete the challenge. Pretty nice experience all round huh?

I would ask, however, that the "thumbs downers" pay a thought to the person on the other end, who thought they were creative, just to have there excitement dashed by a dozen thumbs down in the first 48 hours ... yes, yes ... express yourself, thats fine, but do it for the right reasons.

If you are protesting something bigger, then protest where it counts.

Happy caching!

[chillibutts]

Oh yes, I also also posted my vote on gc to remove the thumbs down.

Thinking happy thoughts

[gmj3191]

Oh yes, I also also posted my vote on gc to remove the thumbs down.

Thinking happy thoughts

Nothing wrong with challenges, just don't pollute the cache environment with them, and put 'em on their own site like waymarks and munzees.

[MtnLioness]

Good thoughts, no-one is thinking laterally that perhaps some good quality Challenges may be a great way for the kiddies to participate in geocaching on almost equal terms with the family.

[Bewilderbeest]

Oh yes, I also also posted my vote on gc to remove the thumbs down.

Thinking happy thoughts

Nothing wrong with challenges, just don't pollute the cache environment with them, and put 'em on their own site like waymarks and munzees.

+1

[covert]

Nothing wrong with challenges, just don't pollute the cache environment with them, and put 'em on their own site like waymarks and munzees.

Thumbs Up !

[Philipp]

Nothing wrong with challenges, just don't pollute the cache environment with them, and put 'em on their own site like waymarks and munzees.

like it!

[Team Wibble]

I'm still very disappointed and, quite frankly disgusted with the actions being taken against the challenge caches on gc.com.
I've watched the behaviour unfold on this site and it is like watching a pack rabid dogs, egging each other on to destroy something because they take issue with it.

I still don't see why challenges (virtuals/locationless) "pollute" the cache environment and people take issue that they are included in their total finds when they are on geocaching.com, but virtuals/locationless/moving caches/webcams etc are embraced on GCA and there is no issue including them in total find tallies for GCA caches.

It seems very hypocritical.

If you don't like the concept of challenges, ignore them - they're kept pretty separate on the site.
Obviously there are people who want to give them a go, and have some good ideas for creative challenges. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean you should vote down any challenge in an attempt to make sure no one else can enjoy them.

[caughtatwork]

I'm not sure it's the idea being attacked, for me it's the implementation.

As you say, virtuals, locationless, webcams all existed in the past and they exist now, not only at GCA, but also OX OC and the rest of the opencaching network sites.

I think what has annoyed me (and probably a lot of other people) is the way it was implemented. Not having ownership or the ability to police the logs is a big drawback. Having challenges arbitrarily archived by Groundspeak, even though they seemed to fit the bill*. A rushed implementation that was made to meet a date for the block party. Having worked in IT for many years, rushing a solution to meet a timeframe makes for a (generally) poor implementation.

Virtuals have been "on the comeback" even since Jeremy annouced "Project Phoenix" (I think that's what it was called) a couple of years ago. The challenges can be good (just like some caches). The challenges can be bad (just like some caches). If you don't want challenge caches counted in your stats, don't do them. Or set up another account and have that one set aside for your challenges.

I don't think challenges themselves are a bad idea. I think the way it was implemented warrants feedback to Groundspeak that it could / should be improved.

The other thing they did at the same time, which tipped some opinions over the edge, was the dual implementation of challenges and the changes to the log section of the cache pages. Too radical. Too much. Didn't cater for the average cacher who looks at the page. People don't like change and I think when they got all of this tipped on them, they blew a fuse.

I admit my vehemence was over the top, but I stand by my opinion that the volume of change (month after month after mont) in the way the site looks, combined with the poorly implemented challenges is not the way to make a community happy.

* I listed a challenge. It was at the Kennedy Space Centre in Florida. It was to take a picture of yourself on the Space Shuttle ride, which is right next to a mockup of the space shuttle. It was called (something like) take a trip to the ISS (if you dare). The challenge seemed proper. i.e. A location. Something interesting. You had to take a picture. You might want to go on the ride. The only thing I can think of is that the Kennedy Space Centre is a paid location. No different to the virtuals in Disneyland though. I didn't get any notification of why it was archived and I was peeved.

[caughtatwork]

On the thumbs up, thumbs down.

When GCA implemented the rating system for caches. We entertained a number of discussions regarding the rating from 1 through to 5. 1 and 2 are effectively thumbs down, 4 and 5 are effectively a thumbs up. 3 is neutral. Ultimately we decided that for a rating system to be usable it also had to be transparent. In other words if you rated a cache, you had to stand behind the rating. As such we decided to include your rating with your log. No hiding behind an anonymous rating system.

I think that GC have done poorly with the thumbs system for challenge ratings. They are anonymous. I can rate anything and everything with a thumbs up / down and you never know who did it. If the thumbs up / down also had a list of people who gave it that rating (i.e. click on the thumb, see who rated it), you would find that people wouldn't be so quick to thumbs down a challenge if they knew that their thumbs down count would be visible.

This is another example of the poor implementation I mentioned above. It wasn't thought through and they didn't see the consequence of their actions. Rectification of the invisibility will probably resolve the people who vote everything down.

[Taiko'sFamily]

I think the overuse of thumbs down is a reaction from the cachers who don't agree with having challenges at all.
I can see where the op is coming from wanting the challenges to be fun for kids, give it time, people will get bored with / distracted from the challenges in time and it should settle down.

[Papa Bear_Left]

Just for the record: I've had a look around at the Oz challenges and have given my downward thumb to most of them. Not as a protest at the whole idea, but because all but one or two of them were either locationless or just bad ideas. i.e. I think they deserved to fade away. I also flagged the locationless ones, but not the Just A Bad Idea ones.

As a reviewer, I see a slightly better ratio of legal and well-thought-out caches to illegal/dumb/pointless listings, but it's probably a good thing I don't get a thumb to use on many (maybe even most) of them as well!

[Richary]

I have only looked at one and given it a thumbs down? My reasoning is that the only people who can log it are those who can borrow a book from a particular library, so therefore have to be library members of that particular council area. Mind you I don't know how it could be policed either! But it cuts out 99.99% of the caching population.

As long as they don't start bundling them with my PQs just because they are in NSW.

[Laighside Legends]

While I don't have anything against challenges and I'm sure they appeal to some people I was expecting something better...
I voted on the "Bring back virtuals" topic and now I kinda wish I hadn't
I like caches (both virtuals and others) that have some thought put into them and I like know who put the thought in!
And I like caches that not anyone can log from the other side of the world...
So what upsets me is that I can't find a virtual cache placed by someone I know who is policing the logs to make sure they are genuine...