Geocaching Australia

bshwckr wrote:Just created my first "chirp" cache. Its a GCA only cache.

http://geocaching.com.au/cache/ga2948

Nice of you to provide the "Non-Chirp" Option... and I believe the first and ONLY Beacon GCA Cache

My understanding of how to determine the type of a multi stage cache using a Chirp beacon is
- if the cache has an alternative solution for non Chirp compatible GPS users then it should be a Multi
- If you need a Chirpy GPS then it should be a Mystery.

These two caches follow this rule
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_de ... c3ba5fc3ac
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_de ... b873f94046

We now have this one published last week as a multi, when both a UV torch and a Chirp friendly GPS are mandatory
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_de ... 00af820a52

Is my understanding of the rule incorrect, or has the rule changed since this was discussed early in this thread?

Thanks.

Interesting that my Chirp cache seems to be the opposite.

Chirp capable users must go to the posted coords to get the GZ location. Non Chirp capable users can do my PHP challenge and get the coords from a website, without going to the posted coords, which rules out Multi as an option.

I chose Mystery.

I was actually wondering the same thing, but had not got around to looking over at the groundspeak forums. I didn't spot anything at WP2 and assume that waypoint is chirp only, however couldn't look properly as the race marshals were actually standing in that area when I did the cache.
I have now created a public bookmark list of Australian chirp caches, it is hard to find them all as some don't have the beacon attribute selected or mention chirp in the title.

tatty wrote:I was actually wondering the same thing, but had not got around to looking over at the groundspeak forums. I didn't spot anything at WP2 and assume that waypoint is chirp only, however couldn't look properly as the race marshals were actually standing in that area when I did the cache.
I have now created a public bookmark list of Australian chirp caches, it is hard to find them all as some don't have the beacon attribute selected or mention chirp in the title.

I don't believe they need anything specific in the title, but the beacon attribute should be set.
If this is missed at publication we should remind the owners I guess.

No it doesn't need chirp in the title, I just meant that some of the chirp caches are hard to find for adding to the bookmark list with no beacon attribute and no mention of chirp in the title to search via keyword
Alex's 'Chirp' in SA is one with no attribute that I stumbled across by accident, which is why I started the list. We would have made an effort to stop past and attempt it if I had realised it existed last week from the beacon PQ!

Don't forget that the Beacon attribute doesn't necessarily mean that the cache uses a Chirp; it could be a Bluetooth or WiFi or FM radio based waypoint as well.

(Putting on my reviewer hat for a moment:)
The beacon attribute is the only mandatory thing for a Chirp-using cache. It could be a multi (if there's something to find at the listed coords, be it the Chirp signal or something else) or a mystery (if you have to do something to get the coords of the first thing to find, be it the Chirp signal, etc.), but it can't be a Traditional cache.

Yes, one of the caches in the beacon PQ is a wifi cache

However I'm confused, so your saying that caches that can only be found with a chirp capable GPSr don't need to be listed as a '?' cache anymore.

On the groundspeak forums they are implying the original chirp rules apply?
http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index. ... e]Keystone - Moderator and reviewer
Posted 12 March 2011 - 06:48 PM
1. Your cache MUST use the Beacon attribute, as noted in a post above.

2. Your beacon location is subject to the Cache Saturation guideline, but you will find that your reviewer will be especially generous when considering an exception to the 528 foot minimum separation distance.

3. If finding the beacon device is the ONLY way to learn the location of the cache containing the logbook, you MUST list your cache as a mystery/puzzle type.

4. Be sure to keep the Commercial Caches section of the listing guidelines in mind when talking about your Beacon device within the cache description. [/quote]

Just to quickly add in, this cache is the same set up as the originally mentioned cache here in Vic:
http://coord.info/GC2NK45

Papa Bear_Left wrote:Don't forget that the Beacon attribute doesn't necessarily mean that the cache uses a Chirp; it could be a Bluetooth or WiFi or FM radio based waypoint as well.

(Putting on my reviewer hat for a moment:)
The beacon attribute is the only mandatory thing for a Chirp-using cache. It could be a multi (if there's something to find at the listed coords, be it the Chirp signal or something else) or a mystery (if you have to do something to get the coords of the first thing to find, be it the Chirp signal, etc.), but it can't be a Traditional cache.

Yes, this seems to me to be a change from the original position which was

- if there is no alternative other than using the beacon it must be a Mystery.

Papa Bear_Left wrote:(Putting on my reviewer hat for a moment:)
The beacon attribute is the only mandatory thing for a Chirp-using cache. It could be a multi (if there's something to find at the listed coords, be it the Chirp signal or something else) or a mystery (if you have to do something to get the coords of the first thing to find, be it the Chirp signal, etc.), but it can't be a Traditional cache.

I probably shouldn't make "official" posts at 1am...

Yep, the guidelines require that caches that have no other way to be found without using a Chirp need to be listed as Mystery/Puzzle/Unknown type.

The thinking was that multis should be findable by anyone, not just those with the right equipment. Not a position I agree with, but I don't have to agree with all the guidelines, just apply them as fairly as I'm able!

Personally, I think that, if you have to go to a specific location to find something before you can get to the next stage (which might be the GZ), then it's a multi and the listed coords should be that specific location. If you have to do something before going to a specific location, then it's a mystery cache.

If you have to solve puzzles once you've got to the start of a multi, it's still a multi. Multis don't need to be easy!

theUMP wrote:

Papa Bear_Left wrote:(Putting on my reviewer hat for a moment:)
The beacon attribute is the only mandatory thing for a Chirp-using cache. It could be a multi (if there's something to find at the listed coords, be it the Chirp signal or something else) or a mystery (if you have to do something to get the coords of the first thing to find, be it the Chirp signal, etc.), but it can't be a Traditional cache.

I probably shouldn't make "official" posts at 1am...

Yep, the guidelines require that caches that have no other way to be found without using a Chirp need to be listed as Mystery/Puzzle/Unknown type.

The thinking was that multis should be findable by anyone, not just those with the right equipment. Not a position I agree with, but I don't have to agree with all the guidelines, just apply them as fairly as I'm able!

That's fairly clear then.
The latest Chirp cache, Geometry with the Beach Birdies should be classified as a Mystery, not a Multi.
This is reinforced by the fact that you need a UV light to solve a puzzle to even find the Chirp.

Things have got a bit more complicated than when I found my first cache back in 2002.

Okay I think I have this right

I believe the cache in question should indeed be a '?' cache then:
The first stage has a puzzle, but the puzzle takes you to the chirp and without the chirp you cannot find GZ.

I must say that I had no problem with the cache, it was great fun and well set out. I'm just confused about the apparent change in guidelines and want to make sure I'm understanding them, as I still have more chirps here from my original order that I may place out in the future.

There is actually a couple of chirp caches on the bookmark list that are listed as multis but say they can't be found without the chirp, which is why I thought I must have missed a change in the guidelines.

I am the owner of 'Geometry with the Beach Birdies', and I personally think this is not fair. You see, I originally put the cache down as a Puzzle cache, but theUMP thought that it should be a multi. The first time he asked me, I kept it as a Puzzle. Then he asked me again and I agreed to change it because I wanted to get it published. I did do the right thing, however I had to change to the wrong thing. I realise that no one is having an attack, however I still think that it is unfair that I did the right thing. And on the other topic, I have no idea wether the rule has changed.

I have read and reread these posts and it's still as clear as mud to me.

I think the ump is doing a great job considering the rules on this subject seem to have been written on the fly to catch up with the change in technology.

No doubt as the chirp's become more common the rules will be modified and refined and understood. This of course could go the other way and the chirp's could disappear if they are not taken up in numbers.

Another question I have is, should a beacon be marked as a Q&A waypoint or a waypoint in a multi?